Should people who don’t celebrate Christmas get to have it off work?

[Username638]

Might be a controversial topic, I’m not sure. I work in a small team and there always has to be at least two people in over Christmas. One of the people does not celebrate Christmas due to their religion. They get a week or two off earlier in the year for Eid. Now that it has come to deciding who is having what time off for Christmas, the colleague who doesn’t celebrate it has said he might go for a trip away. I find this unfair really because he has already had his celebration and his time off work. It was a given, he didn’t need to fight over holidays, he just was granted the time off (which is fine obviously, that’s not the issue. I’m just saying he has already had his celebration and now it’s ours).

I don’t think there should be any rules in place that he can’t have any time off over Xmas because I do think it would be unfair and not right. But I just would’ve hoped that he would make the decision off his own back to work Xmas eve, Xmas day and Boxing Day so that those who celebrate it can have it off. I feel like it’s common decency? I did ask what he is up to for Xmas a few weeks ago and he said nothing as he doesn’t celebrate it. But now he’s decided he might go away for the whole week of Christmas and I just find it selfish tbh.

So he took leave which he was entitled to, albeit when no-one else wanted to. What he wanted it for is a side issue.

And now he's taking leave, again which he's entitled to, but you think he shouldn't because he's not a Christian.

YABU as he's as entitled to the time off much as anyone else. But, YANBU because, if he doesn't want it for anything special, it would be the decent thing to do.

There isn’t any less annual leave. We have to use it for bank holidays. He doesn’t have children. And neither do I. It’s nothing to do with that. I just think that if I was in a situation where my whole team celebrated something that I didn’t and wasn’t bothered about, I wouldn’t then take it off so that one of them had to work because it feels unfair. We have already had conversations around Christmas. Last year he was off for it as well and said he didn’t do anything at all because it’s just another day for him, Christmas doesn’t mean anything. Is that not just a bit selfish then?

This has nothing to do with human decency. When he does not have plans, he's happy to work, so those who 'celebrate' Christmas can have it off. This year he'd like to go away and that perfectly normal and acceptable.

I'm also guessing he uses annual leave for 'his' celebration and given most people are just back at work after Christmas, there's no real impediment to him having that time; so no-one is actually sacrificing time off for him.

Of course he is entitled to time off whenever he wants it. I am just saying, out of alllll the time in the year, would it not just be a nice thing to do to let your colleague have it off when it actually means something to them? I would never take time off over a period that means something special to someone else if it didn’t mean anything to me. I’d just take it off a few days after or the week before. We don’t automatically get bank holidays off, so we have to use our AL regardless

Eid is extremely culturally and religiously significan. Unless you have the same approache (as per previous post), rather than just 'celebrating' it, then it's tricky.
Presumably there is no issue with your approaach Easter...?

Have you taken your turn with working Christmas OP?

Maybe on the face of it. But OTOH your manager sounds as if none of you get to choose- so maybe it’s him/her you should speak to about fairness and taking turns?

I'm one of those ppl who doesn't celebrate Xmas. Luckily I have a job where everyone is just given the time off. Previously I'd happily work over Xmas as the days aren't special to me.

That being said, I can understand why someone who doesn't celebrate would want that time off due to the bank hols. Obviously we don't get national days off around the celebrations that are important to us. Maybe he only has those few days around the bank hols to now use as a holiday as he's used annual leave for his other religious things.

Typically I was always taken out of school the week before Xmas for a nice family holiday and have been doing that for my children. This works well because they just spend that week sitting out of nativity, not wearing Xmas jumpers, the carol singing, the xmas themed lunch and suprise room, disco etc etc. (It also takes the staff away from those events that have to supervise them being sat out, so I'm sure they prefer us going away) But fines and penalties being what they are this will have to stop and we'll all be fighting for the same annual leave dates as everyone else.

I think in your specific example, he could have been more considerate and not taken leave given the situation.

In general, I think most people who celebrate Christmas these days actually just celebrate eating lots and having a tree (that's me BTW, not throwing shade!). So is your suggestion that practicing Christians get priority (as its a religious holiday), or just those who like to have a tree and a jolly with their family (probably more common).

If the latter, how would that work, when relatively few people do nothing at all for Christmas? Lots of folk of other religions still "celebrate" (eg my lovely neighbours who have always made sure they have decorations, turkey and a tree so their kids aren't upset/teased at school for missing out)?

I mean, was the fella at work granted leave because it was Eid, or because no-one else had a request for those dates anyway? Is it comparable to Christmas (that most people want off)?

What's the process for determination of annual leave?

So if the entire team request the same week, any week it just happens to be Christmas in this case, who decides who works and who gets it off?

If someone has previously taken lots of leave, irrespective of reason, then do they get less chance of having the next set of leave?

Maybe suggest to your boss, the person who would rather have Eid, work the Christmas bank holidays and have days off in-lue at Eid.

Give it time and Eid will become a bank holiday in the UK.

Okay fair enough. Take Eid out of it then. My view still stands. If you don’t celebrate Christmas at all and it is completely irrelevant to you, but you have people on the team who celebrate it and are excited for it then I think it’s a nice and decent thing to do to let them have Christmas Day off

If you booked a week off with friends or family and it happened to fall at the same time as Eid, would you cancel for your colleague.
Have they said Christmas means nothing to them? British Muslims and Sikhs I work with still celebrate Christmas with family.

but he is going away, perhaps the people he is visiting have time off over christmas
yabu

But people like the time off as it's easy to have a longer break. And they may want to see family. Has he children? They are off school too?

And are you really celebrating the birth of a baby to a virgin conceived by a sky god? It's just a nice time off for anyone.

Who was off last year? We have a rota system at work where we take turns. Maybe you should look at something like that?

What does that have to do with anything?

if any of you moved somewhere where once a year they had a celebration of sorts that meant absolutely nothing to you and you didn’t care about. Would you take the holidays off one of those people? Or would you see that it’s a kind thing to do to let them have it off and you can just take AL the week before or after etc? I think if you’re of the viewpoint of “I can’t take time off whenever I want no matter what and fuck everyone else” then I just think you’re selfish. I shouldn’t have mentioned Eid actually because people have made some good points about that, which I agree with. But even then, my thoughts are the same.

I wanted a few days off for my birthday this year, but one of my colleagues was excited to go to wales and spend time with her dad who she hasn’t seen for ages and wanted the same time off as me. Only one of us could have it off, so I let her have it and just had a few days after my birthday off instead of a few days before. Because sometimes it’s just nice to think about other people!

Annual leave and rotas shouldn’t have any bearing on what people are celebrating outside of work.

would you win the annual leave card if you both wanted time off if it was your birthday?

your manager does sound shit not organising the rota far enough in advance, but other than that it pot luck on annual leave

so celebrating Christs birthday can be done at midnight mass instead of Xmas day service

I think there are far too many people who accept a job which specifically requires that there must be people working on Christmas Day and then every year spend October-December trying to maneuver to make it not actually apply to them.

Working on Christmas Day isn't a barrel of laughs even if you don't celebrate Christmas. Being stuck in a nealy-empty workplace knowing that 99% of the country is having a great day just sucks. Expecting a muslim team member to accept that every year rather than just taking a fair share turn like everyone else is discriminatory

I think having now read your updates, that the issue with the guy at work is pretty minor - the issue is your manager is being a dick not having sorted this rota for Christmas ages ago so people knew where they stood, which would also mean if this guy was scheduled to be off he could be asked if he might swap. And possibly the issue is also that the process is generally poorly managed at your workplace.

Do you have a HR dept your whole team could approach en masses and ask for a better, clearly, more timely process to be established?

Op my immediate instinct on seeing the headline was of course they should have it off.
Christmas after all is a hodge podge of all different traditions and festivals and you can celebrate without any religious element.
But reading the op yes I feel extremely selfish and dis courteous.

Surely your work place should just adopt a ‘take it in turns approach’. So whoever worked Christmas last year gets it off this year. As he was off last year, it’s his turn to work this year.

Whatever the reason for wanting leave is nobody’s business

What happens at Easter?