Should people who don’t celebrate Christmas get to have it off work?

[Username638]

Might be a controversial topic, I’m not sure. I work in a small team and there always has to be at least two people in over Christmas. One of the people does not celebrate Christmas due to their religion. They get a week or two off earlier in the year for Eid. Now that it has come to deciding who is having what time off for Christmas, the colleague who doesn’t celebrate it has said he might go for a trip away. I find this unfair really because he has already had his celebration and his time off work. It was a given, he didn’t need to fight over holidays, he just was granted the time off (which is fine obviously, that’s not the issue. I’m just saying he has already had his celebration and now it’s ours).

I don’t think there should be any rules in place that he can’t have any time off over Xmas because I do think it would be unfair and not right. But I just would’ve hoped that he would make the decision off his own back to work Xmas eve, Xmas day and Boxing Day so that those who celebrate it can have it off. I feel like it’s common decency? I did ask what he is up to for Xmas a few weeks ago and he said nothing as he doesn’t celebrate it. But now he’s decided he might go away for the whole week of Christmas and I just find it selfish tbh.

What utter nonsense. Christmas is the most significant celebration in the year. Whether people are celebrating it religiously or secularly makes no difference to the fact it is the most significant festival we have in the UK. It’s very much THE time when families get together and celebrate together with food and time and gifts.

Pretty certain this is where you lose any credibility at all.

Isn't it illegal not to give bank holidays off without offering any additional incentive?

YANBU. Allowance has been made for him to take his special time off, so he should be more considerate about Christmas and not book Leave then or not until others have booked.

Thinking charitably, perhaps he just hadn’t realised or thought about it - about the significance and specialness for some people. I’d politely point it out and ask that he consider his colleagues and not book up lots of Leave over Christmas - in the same way those colleagues didn’t book up all the Leave over Eid.

No

Sadly your mistake is expecting “common decency” from anyone - it’s unfortunately a very rare thing these days😔

Holiday during Eid next year!!! 🥳🥳

I agree with you OP.

If I was the one not celebrating Christmas, I'd offer to work so others could have the time off. I'd also offer to work Christmas if other colleagues had small children (I don't).

I'd also have brought it up with him at the time when he mentioned going away at Christmas!

@ilovesooty of course he did. But this thread isn’t about rights. It’s about consideration for fellow human beings. For years I was the only person at work without school age kids. Of course I had every right to book all half term holidays off work. I could have taken every single one, despite them not being connected with any specific celebrations. That was my right. But I wouldn’t, because it would be inconsiderate.

In any case, the date of Big Eid that comes after Ramadan changes every year, so I doubt that many non-Muslims would be aware of it unless they made a point of finding out.

There’s also a Little Eid - having spent 13 years in Muslim countries I really ought to know the names of both, but have forgotten them.

Officials in Oman, where we spent most of those 13 years were very accommodating towards Christmas. Shortly before our last Christmas there, Father Christmas arrived at the English Speaking school on a ceremonial camel, kindly lent by the Royal Oman Police. He told the children that he’d left his reindeer at the airport because they didn’t like the sand! 😂

You said yourself that multiple people can have Christmas off as it's quieter so I'm not sure why you're so hyperfocussed on the one Muslim man on the team. Presumably others on the team have also got Christmas off?

the pagan bits aren’t tied to the 25th Dec. ;)

Neither was the birth of jesus until a group of people picked that day.

The point is that's when the bank holiday is.

@Username638 I do understand, and you are correct if you booked Eid as AL posters would say give it up for the person who is celebrating.

I appreciate some organisations can’t close e.g. hospitals, police etc. so someone has to work on Christmas Day.

However, from an employer perspective they can either dictate leave for all staff by closing so everyone gets the days leave or they have a fair system where it is taken in turns. As your colleague had leave on Christmas Day last year and you worked, then this year you should get Christmas Day and they work.

Yes I've apologised.
I was thinking in terms of my former colleagues at the time.
It was wrongly worded.
I'm sorry.

People describe it as 'our Xmas' because back in the day you would tell someone it's Eid and you would get a blank look because of sheer ignorance. Then you would explain it's a religious festival and the reason why and it would be followed by 'ohhhh it's your Christmas!' 🤦🏽‍♀️ Some people feel the need to relate everything to their own world. One would think the same level of ignorance doesn't still exist in 2024 but if in doubt it's an easy way to explain to someone.

if any of you moved somewhere where once a year they had a celebration of sorts that meant absolutely nothing to you and you didn’t care about. Would you take the holidays off one of those people? is the problem really that he’s an immigrant and you don’t think he’s quite as entitled to time off at Christmas as you?

I think people are being disingenuous to claim that only religious people celebrate Christmas. I say that as a practising Christian for whom taking communion at Christmas is very important (but if I were working Christmas Day, of course there would be the opportunity to take it at midnight mass).

Christmas is no longer just “Christ’s mass” in 21st century Britain. For most people it’s a secular festival involving family gatherings, exchanging gifts and sharing food, as well as “doing Santa” if there are kids involved.

That means that in a multicultural society you have to allow space for people of other religions who want to enjoy some of the secular aspects of the holiday. Would it be nice if your colleague gave priority for those who value the Christmas holiday very highly? Yes, it would. But he may want to take opportunity of cheap flights, extended leave etc as others have said because although we are no longer in practice a Christian nation, the Christian festivals still get massive priority in the calendar in terms of days off.

Yes. I'm sorry.

"Don't be ridiculous! He took time off (from his own holiday entitlement, I assume, and at the time which is not a bank holiday) to celebrate his religious holiday. You don't seem to be religious so the situation is not comparable. But even if you were, everyone in the UK is entitled to Christmas and Boxing day off. There isn't a register of people who are Christians and only they allowed to take time off. Everyone is entitled to the same bank holiday and the only reason to make it fair is to rotate staff on duty.
What's next? Giving up your right to a bank holiday because you are single? Childless? I am quite happy to be on duty at Christmas if I am rostered in. But I am not going to offer to give up my bank holiday entitlement because someone wants to spend a day in their PJs watching Love Actually on repeat"

@Catza you are ridiculous. Everyone in the U.K. is entitled to Christmas and Boxing Day off? Do you live in the real world?

@Stravaig what??? No one has said anything about integrating or otherwise. OP’s colleague has already said that Christmas is just a normal day for him, and no one cares about that. What she cares about is that fact that he’s elbowing in and trying to get time off without thinking about the bigger picture.
I think you’re looking for racism when there isn’t any.

What happens on every other religious or cultural festivals (Easter, Diwali, Chinese new year etc)? Do you police religiosity/cultural credibility for all of these events too?
Or is your whole office British Christian except this one Muslim man?

I disagree. What you want your annual leave off for is irrelevant. One persons plans don't trump another's.

Your workplace should have clear guidelines for requesting annual leave. And if people are required to work on bank holidays, then that should be sorted out months before. Its a management position problem here op not a colleague one.

My workplace has a first come first served approach for holidays. I would be really pissed off if I was asked why I wanted holidays so they could arbitrarily decide who gets the time off. I quite often have time off with no plans (have a week booked in feb - 2 days of which I have no plans other than not working and the other 2 days the kids are off school) as long as I've followed the correct procedure I will (and have them approved) get the time off.

If someone was going away for a long weekend, whatever the reason, I would have expected them to have booked the time off when they booked the trip. If they didn't, and then realised someone else was already off, why is it ok to ask the person who has got the time off approved to change it, just because of a lack of their own organisation?

The thing is, that even if the coworker takes EID off, he may still celebrate the secular version of Christmas, which most people do: “Father Christmas” or “Santa Claus” are so far removed from Jesus, Mary, Joseph (and the wee Donkey) these days that anyone of any denomination can choose to celebrate - and that’s exactly how it should be!
If your entire celebration of Christmas is based on religious activities, put in for it earlier and explain why to your Boss…

You don’t have to go to Mass again on Christmas Day if you have gone to midnight mass already.

What about Christianity dictates you can only receive only one gift?

I’m with you OP, he sounds like a dick. Is he always quite selfish and thoughtless?

If anything, it costs twice as much to go away over Xmas, so it’s clearly not a week anyone would choose randomly to go away. It will also be very busy over that time. Anyone with no kids wanting time away would absolutely not go during that week!