Should people who don’t celebrate Christmas get to have it off work?

[Username638]

Might be a controversial topic, I’m not sure. I work in a small team and there always has to be at least two people in over Christmas. One of the people does not celebrate Christmas due to their religion. They get a week or two off earlier in the year for Eid. Now that it has come to deciding who is having what time off for Christmas, the colleague who doesn’t celebrate it has said he might go for a trip away. I find this unfair really because he has already had his celebration and his time off work. It was a given, he didn’t need to fight over holidays, he just was granted the time off (which is fine obviously, that’s not the issue. I’m just saying he has already had his celebration and now it’s ours).

I don’t think there should be any rules in place that he can’t have any time off over Xmas because I do think it would be unfair and not right. But I just would’ve hoped that he would make the decision off his own back to work Xmas eve, Xmas day and Boxing Day so that those who celebrate it can have it off. I feel like it’s common decency? I did ask what he is up to for Xmas a few weeks ago and he said nothing as he doesn’t celebrate it. But now he’s decided he might go away for the whole week of Christmas and I just find it selfish tbh.

Don't be ridiculous! He took time off (from his own holiday entitlement, I assume, and at the time which is not a bank holiday) to celebrate his religious holiday. You don't seem to be religious so the situation is not comparable. But even if you were, everyone in the UK is entitled to Christmas and Boxing day off. There isn't a register of people who are Christians and only they allowed to take time off. Everyone is entitled to the same bank holiday and the only reason to make it fair is to rotate staff on duty.
What's next? Giving up your right to a bank holiday because you are single? Childless?
I am quite happy to be on duty at Christmas if I am rostered in. But I am not going to offer to give up my bank holiday entitlement because someone wants to spend a day in their PJs watching Love Actually on repeat.

This would seem fair. It seems a bit unreasonable of him to do it 2 years in a row especially given OP's previous comment that last year he said he didn't do anything at all as it's just another day for him - if that's true then why book it off when everyone else wants it (I get that this year he wants to go on a trip so fair enough).

I think the rota should be done fairly so the same two people don’t work Christmas each year.

Obviously if someone doesn’t want Christmas off then they should be able to swap with someone if they wish.

Has he ever not been able to have Eid off?

You have no idea who he is going away with though. Maybe he has friends or family who are also off at Christmas. I think unless you know every detail of his life it's just one of those things.

But if it was two peoples birthday then two people would have a nice special reason to be off. So then it’s a case of just working it out between yourselves. If I wanted the 1st December off to just sit and chill at home and have a break, but someone else wanted it off because it was their birthday, I would let them have it off because I can take my day off to chill a few days after or something, they can’t change their birthday. And that’s really what I’m getting at here. If someone wants time off for something that is important to them, and you also want the time off just for a break, then I think you should just let the other person have it and you choose different dates. If he wants to have time off over Xmas he could have the week of new year off or 27th and have a nice long weekend or something. There’s loads of ways to work around it so that he still gets time off over the Xmas period. I just think it’s a nice thing to do to let people have Xmas day and Boxing Day off if they celebrate those things and have plans and are excited etc and it’s meaningless to you.

Where I work, people of other faiths are very gracious in saying they will cover Christmas for those who want it off and equally, others do the same for them when they have religious days off or Ramadan reduced hours etc

Yeah I think it would be nice for people to do it. Not quite the same, but I've never been a New Year's Eve person, so when I worked in retail I was more than happy to swap my 2nd Jan shift with someone who was working 1st Jan but who wanted to go out for NYE, for example. And I wouldn't have requested NYE or New Year's Day off.

But tbf that was more about me not wanting to use my annual leave on something that didn't matter to me, rather than something entirely altruistic!

Eid is irrelevant as he wasn't 'given' it off. He booked annual leave. And presumably he was granted it as it isn't a particularly popular time of year so not a lot of competition for the days.
I am not religious. I celebrate Christmas by relaxing and eating nice food after a busy work month. Its nice because often other family will have time off at the same time. It is likely others in his family will have days off over Christmas so nit unreasonable to want to sync up with them.
I do think your works way of handling it is pretty shitty, if Christmas day/boxing day were offered at time and a half I suspect a lot of the problem would solve itself, as those who aren't super bothered but need the money would offer to work. Having it managed as just another day is bound to cause problems.

I think this is a bit disingenuous. Christmas is culturally significant for the vast majority of British families.

OP I agree with you. DH has a Muslim work friend and he always works Christmas because for his family it's just a normal day and he is considerate of colleagues who for religious and/or cultural reasons Christmas is an important event. Ultimately everyone can take leave whenever they want in line with company policy but when colleagues are considerate of each other it makes for a much happier workplace.

I hate this modern culture of "I am entitled to do XYZ and it's not my responsibility to think of other people". I don't think society has always been like this and I think we're all worse off for it.

Your work should allow all to celebrate Christmas and Boxing Day.They should shut up shop.

YANBU at all op, of course people on here will say "why shouldn't he take it off" well maybe because any decent person wouldn't in that circumstance. And you can guarantee if it was the other way around and you fancied taking Eid off because "you might fancy taking a trip" there would be uproar on here

Explain celebrate in relation to how someone might 'celebrate' a different cultural or religious event

He doesn’t sound much of a team plsyer. Maybe he does celebrate it to some degree though op, and Eid as well.

Not sure why you are getting such a hard time OP. Of course people should take turns. And anyone who doesn't celebrate shouldn't block those who do celebrate from taking leave, if possible (we can all have things crop up).
And even if one takes the religious side out, Christmas does have great cultural and social significance - nothing like Easter. So it absolutely is comparable to Eid.

But I wouldn't blame the co-worker too much - it's your manager who's the problem I think.

I think loads of people are missing the point to what I am saying.

If I came on here and made a post saying I put an annual leave request in for a Friday and a Monday so that I had a long weekend, I don’t have any plans, I just need a break and want to chill. Which I’m entitled to, I can take AL for whatever reason I want. I don’t have to be doing something! My colleague also wants it off because it’s her 30th birthday that weekend and she was planning on a trip away and having a long weekend to celebrate it. However I don’t want to change my AL. I want those dates off. I would be flamed! I just KNOW people would be telling me to change my dates because those dates have no meaning or significance to me. I can take days off to chill or go on my own little break the week after or the week before or WHENEVER I want. No one would be on my side and I would be considered selfish.

That’s really what my post is about. Someone taking the annual leave off someone else, meaning they will have to work over a period that is special and important to them and they will miss out on family celebrations etc, because someone else wants it off when the days don’t mean anything to them. Technically he is allowed the days off, I’m not saying his AL should be denied. I’m just saying I was hoping he would be a bit considerate about it and let us have Xmas day and Boxing Day. Then if he wants the 27th off or the week of new year he could do that. No one can dictate when he takes AL and for what reason. I’m only saying wouldn’t it be the decent thing to do?

You realise we can't shut down police stations, fire stations and A&E at Christmas? I previously worked in a crisis team and we are 24/7 service. Granted, most of our patients canceled their appointments on Christmas day and New Year's Eve so we just sit in the office and eat mince pies. But we can't shut down shop.

But clearly they cannot or this wouldn't be an issue.
I'm sure all the public services would be very happy to shut up shop over public holidays. However, silly people injure themselves, fight, steal, abuse others, and set their homes aflame during public holidays, so ...

OP I agree with you completely- in your job where your team are required to cover bank holidays, if he had Christmas Day off last year it seems unreasonable for him to take Christmas Day off again.

A lot of people on this thread seem to be living in a world where it’s a guarantee that everyone has Christmas Day and Boxing Day off because it’s a bank holiday- this is just not the case in lots of jobs. For example, my DH has Christmas Day off this year and will be on the rota to work for the next 5 years on Christmas Day. People who just assume everyone gets these days off because they’re bank holidays are mistaken.

I would speak to him about it directly, you are respectful of his wish to take time off at Eid, and I assume don’t book that week but he is not respecting your commitment to Christmas.
It doesn’t feel fair, so raise it with him. If he insists he needs to take Xmas off as well then book Eid next year and ask him to consider how it feels.

They’re not. They’re doing the now-typical MN obtuse responses and choosing to ignore your point by nitpicking and focusing on one thing you said to the exclusion of everything else.

It’s very tedious.

So just confirming you check when Eid is every year and avoid booking annual leave then, so he's guaranteed to have his 'celebration' off?

This. Everyone understands you quite well. You're quite right, OP, and I'd find it very selfish indeed.

I think it's up to the employer to have a good policy that divide the burden of having to work bank holidays fairly. Your beef is not with a coworker who has requested time off. It's none of your business why someone requests time off anyway.

Another NHS worker here who is fed up with people who dont celebrate Xmas wanting Xmas week off. I don't get it. I dont ask for any time off for other religious holidays and actively avoid asking for time off around other big religious events so that my co workers who do celebrate it can get annual leave.