HIGHLIGHTING DANGER OF WOODBURNERS

[GlassHouseBlue]

Fine particulate matter (PM2.5) -
essentially tiny particles of soot - is one
of the most dangerous air pollutants.
Breathing it in is linked to lung cancer,
heart damage, strokes, impaired cognition
and mental health problems, and can
exacerbate conditions such as asthma,
COPD and pulmonary fibrosis. Children
and elderly people are most vulnerable

….

I'll shout it from the rooftops if I have to!

Please do keep away from the chimneys though, apparently the smoke can be bad for you.

THINK TWICE BEFORE BUYING! 68% of household burning is in URBAN areas not rural….risks in urban areas are far bigger than in rural communities. Household wood burning is the SECOND highest source of PM 2.5 pollution in the UK…this is the pollution that is thought to penetrate deepest into lungs then pass into the bloodstream, hence the health concerns.
urbanhealth.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Behavioural-Approach-to-Wood-burning-Combined-report.pdf

They are awful for peoples health. And there is science evidence to back it.

We spend millions clearing our roads of polluting vehicles and transitioning from coal to wind, only to wreck our air quality by burning wood.

It would maybe be less of a problem if the fuel was controlled. But it isn't. Very often people seem to take delight in slinging any old crap they can find to burn on the fire creating toxic smog. A lot of waste wood is treated and contains various chemicals, either in the treatment or the paint.

I do see a need for alternative fuel sources in places where there are no alternatives. So for example if you are off mains gas then I think it can be justified. But in cities that are on mains gas it should be banned, no question about it.

I think we will get there sooner or later. Just takes a government with enough guts to implement it. This is a thing that could make a real difference to life quality for many people so I hope they get on with it.

Would you be able to share a link please, I'd like to read the background to this. Genuinely!

There are links on the bottom of this article to updated DEFRA research.

https://www.charnwood.com/news/the-truth-about-wood-burning-stoves-the-real-facts/#:~:text=Many%20critics%20of%20woodburning%20stoves,and%20poor%2Dquality%20wood%20fuel

Thank you @Theyareatitagain that's very useful statistics to back up the cause.

https://commercialwaste.trade/wood-burners-bad-environment/

GOV.UK
uk-air.defra.gov.uk › ...PDF
Open fires and wood-burning stoves - a practical guide - UK-AIR

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/about/news/scientists-measure-air-pollution-from-domestic-wood-burners-in-new-study/

https://www.thatchadvicecentre.co.uk/articles/indoor-air-quality-and-outdoor-burning-research

I am not trying to row back from anything. I originally stated that it isn't straight forward. I remain of the opinion that it isn't straight forward. All of the research above, and much more besides summarises as there are ways to burn wood in log burners that can be efficient, and much less damaging to people and the environment. Does that mean there is no risk? If course not, but it reduces it to vastly more acceptable levels. Nothing in today's society has no risk, but I'd wager that most of the people here wringing their hands about log burners have done things far more damaging to the environment (planes, cars, etc). It is just a matter of perspective and balance.

All this "apparently" is so odd. If you accept that breathing in cigarette smoke is harmful, why does it seem ridiculous that breathing in particulates from woodburners is harmful?

Exactly and another neighbour (opposite us to be precise) buying a Woodburner just tipped me over the edge last night! We have real issues with idling cars in the morning but why add to the pollution !

I think that as long as its an informed choice and they are maintained well then its personal choice.
DD has asthma and can't be in a room with one so we don't have one and the in laws don't have theirs on when we visit

"All of the research above, and much more besides summarises as there are ways to burn wood in log burners that can be efficient, and much less damaging to people and the environment."

How do you police people though to be sure that they adhere to those ways ?

If we are to continue to allow it we really need to issue woodburning licences for stoves in cities. These could be used to fund enforcement and checks. At the moment enforcement is pretty toothless.

We could also enforce mandatory filtering.

I bet London literally stinks this morning.

It’s a bit like releasing balloons isn’t it.

wave your rubbish off into the sky and fuck what happens to it and it’s affect on other people/animals/the environment.

the sky isn’t some handy waste facility. There are consequences.

Everything is personal choice. Sorry to be blunt but it's personal choice if you decide to throw someone off a bridge. But it's also personal choice that dictates communities taking collective responsibility for the quality of the air around them.

It's great your in-laws are so mindful of their own GD but what about the other kids walking past their house inhaling the wood burning air into their young lungs?

Everything is personal choice. Sorry to be blunt but it's personal choice if you decide to throw someone off a bridge. But it's also personal choice that dictates communities taking collective responsibility for the quality of the air around them.

It's great your in-laws are so mindful of their own GD but what about the other kids walking past their house inhaling the wood burning air into their young lungs?

This is my point though.

it stops becoming a “personal” choice when the emissions from your fuel burning directly affects your neigbours and negatively affects the environment.

it’s not my personal choice to have someone else’s smoke smells in my property.

There are heavy restrictions on installations of new log burners in London. Probably other cities too. They also need to be installed by HETAS qualified installers who can only install burners meeting the latest regulations.

You cannot police old burners / open fires any more than you can police people using fossil fuels unnecessarily, or not utilising stop / start technology in cars, or having smoke belching out of poorly maintained vehicles etc etc.

Also, if we really want to stop it, posting on a forum is probably the least effective means of influencing behaviour (as this thread demonstrates). Writing to one's MP and lobbying for changes to legislation would be far more effective. Then again, there are probably bigger fish to fry currently.

I'm a bit concerned about the people who can smell their neighbours stoves inside. Assuming you haven't got your windows open, and assuming you are in attached houses, this could mean your chimneys are leaking. Many semis and terraces share chimneys, especially older properties. So if you don't have a woodburner or open fire but your neighbours do and you can smell it in the house with your windows closed, please get that investigated as it doesn't sound right at all. Also get a small portable carbon monoxide alarm and pop it next to your chimney breast.

Bloody Hell - dramatic much?
I am not a huge fan of wood burners but they are not in any way the same as throwing someone off a bridge.
Your OP and subsequent posts are completely over the top and may stop a lot of people from listening

I take it you haven’t actually READ the Defra report linked in that article? From the executive summary…”Burning in a domestic setting (so called ‘domestic combustion’) creates a number of toxic emissions which have a significant impact on human health and the environment. In particular, fine particulate matter (PM2.5), has been associated with higher mortality rates for people with cardiovascular and respiratory diseases. Drawing on solid fuel quantity estimates based on a study of indoor residential burning conducted by the Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy (BEIS) in 2014-15 and figures for indoor solid fuel appliance installations, the National Atmospheric Emissions Inventory suggests burning at home is a very significant source of PM2.5 emissions in the UK.”
…I’m sure you must be aware that stove companies have a vested interest? Even the most up to date stove used in the optimal conditions still produces greater PM 2.5 pollution than a diesel truck if both were left running for an hour.

But they look so cosy! Who cares about a little bit of lung cancer and air pollution....

This makes no sense - a stove is on for a few hours per day, for a few months of the year. Cars and lorries are running 24/7. It's a really flawed comparison based on rates of emission not real world use.

@Hoppinggreen I was trying to explain that we have a whole lot of personal choice in this world. Not sure what's wrong with my PPs. I am diagnosed high functioning autistic but I don't usually get things lost in translation as you are indicating.

The bottom line is there are posters minimising the effect of wood burning stoves as it suits them not to believe the negative impact on their health and their community's health.

"You cannot police old burners / open fires"

Well, yes you can. If we had a proper enforcement system then people could complain if their neighbours had a fire or stove which was emitting nasty smoke. Then an officer could go round and potentially fine them if they are breaking the law.

It is illegal to burn wood or coal in London unless you have a modern low-pollution stove - but this hasn't been enforced for decades. So no wonder there are problems.

If you drive around the streets with smoke pouring out of the back of your car sooner or later the police will stop you and turn you over.

If it were possible to drive any length of time with a car/van emitting a lot of smoke then loads of people would be doing it. In the same way loads of people pump toxic smoke out of woodburners into the environment. Because there are a lot of people who are selfish and simply don't care.

We can police woodburning stoves easily. There are already penalities in place but they are rarely enforced, probably because the revenue obtained from fines is not consistent with the amount of effort that needs to go into collecting them.

Licensing would change this, because each council could have an adequately resourced unit that could go around acting on complaints and stopping the public menace.