HIGHLIGHTING DANGER OF WOODBURNERS

[GlassHouseBlue]

Fine particulate matter (PM2.5) -
essentially tiny particles of soot - is one
of the most dangerous air pollutants.
Breathing it in is linked to lung cancer,
heart damage, strokes, impaired cognition
and mental health problems, and can
exacerbate conditions such as asthma,
COPD and pulmonary fibrosis. Children
and elderly people are most vulnerable

Most people who rely on solid fuel stoves and fires do actually rely on them. You know, there's no access to other sources such as gas and the winter storms often knock out electricity connections. Some of us are absolutely going to freeze our arses off if we don't have wood burners. All well and good shrieking about how harmful the particles are if you're not dependent on it. If its a choice of freezing now or breathing something in that may cause me to be ill in 50 years time...bit of a Hobsons choice, that. Flap your hands all you want, I'm not freezing for you or anyone.

Or else they're opening the door too quickly rather than equalising the pressure first.

@CocoapuffPuff it’s about addressing their unnecessary use in places where there are alternatives that don’t harm local air quality.

The particles from wood burners don’t just affect the user—they impact everyone nearby, especially children, the elderly, and those with respiratory issues. It’s not about “flapping hands,” it’s about finding ways to reduce harm where we can.

You keep going on about stopping their use but there are filters that take out 95% of PM2.5 so that would be a better thing to bang your drum about.

Don't understand your point. You surely don't mean it is OK to continue using appliances that pour out harmful pollution.

Yes i agree with not allowing them in areas on the gas network, such as towns and cities.
Gas is cheaper and convenient.

With a filter, yes. PM2.5 is reduced to negligible levels. Cooking produces far more pollutants but no one is advocating that people stop doing that.

@Fevertreelover it's true that some filters, like electrostatic precipitators, can reduce PM2.5 emissions by up to 90–95%. That’s a step in the right direction, but it’s not quite as simple as it sounds:

•	These filters aren’t standard on most wood burners, and retrofitting them can be costly.
•	They need regular cleaning and maintenance to work effectively, which doesn’t always happen.
•	Even with a filter, wood burners still emit harmful pollutants like nitrogen oxides and carbon monoxide.

Filters are definitely worth promoting to reduce harm, but they’re not a complete solution

Ever tried using gas in a power cut? Ignition is electric (pilot lights are a thing of the past), pumps are electric.

My house is connected to the gas network. Naff all use it was for the 32 hours I was without power recently.

My gas heating works as normal in power cuts. The boiler still works fine. I’ve never thought about it before but we have regular power cuts, and were once cut off for 24 hours while repairs were done.

the hob I keep matches in because the ignition for that is electric.

Yanbu at all

we are an environmentally conscious family and we got one genuinely without realising how bad they were

I think they can be better than an alternative fuel source in some cases but in most cases, nah.

we now have an electric heatpump system which is mostly powered via renewables thankfully. In time it will hopefully be powered 100% by renewables(it already is some days)

people might enjoy theirs for a little while longer but I’m pretty sure the government will clamp down on new installations pretty soon. I really hope so anyway.

Is it a particularly old system? Hot water tank or combi?

So should people continue to use old polluting stoves without filters?

Not particularly old. No idea how old exactly as it was here when we moved in.

hot water tank.

the combi boiler in my old house didn’t need electric either. That was newish.

the timers obviously went haywire a bit in a power cuts and needed resetting, and this current one I have to switch on manually as the electronic timer won’t work, but that’s easy enough.

32hr power cuts are extremely rare in towns and cities, which is what i was referring too, not small villages hamlets etc which may be on the gas network and where WB pollution wouldn't be an issue for everyone else.

Maybe power companies need to drop that stupid 2m rule and 4 year inspections, trees are a lot tall than 2m and they grow!

A combi boiler needs electric to operate the control circuits, valves, ignition system and mostly to pump the heating fluid round the radiator/hot water circuit. They also have fans I think to pull out the combustion gases.

A pilot light based boiler might continue to operate during a power cut. Not quite sure how it would manage to pump water round the heating circuit though.

I have a gas fire and that won't work in a power cut because it uses fan extraction (powerflue). I think the only thing that would work is possibly the gas burners on the oven, they would have to be lit manually.

So how did the pump and valves work then? Magic?

Technically I live in a town. This village is separated from the town by several green fields (which are crossed by a very exposed power line) but we still come under the Town Council's jurisdiction. A blanket rule is going to drag us in.

Is the decision around whether to install or use a woodburner or open fire a balance of what priorities you have - heat, lung health, cost etc.

What I object to is that Mums for Lungs are championing a good cause - but the approach which Mums for Lungs takes is aggressive, dismissive of others views/needs, and regularly underhanded.

I have, as I said earlier in the thread, had Mums for Lungs volunteers turn up at online training and meetings and 'bomb' the chat, interrupt meetings, shout people down audibly and digitally. The same Mums for Lungs organisation found home addresses of charity trustees and staff and started sending letters - really quite threatening letters - to individuals. Different volunteers pretended to be 'members of the public' and 'responding with concerns' - when in fact they were already Mums for Lungs Volunteers. Then Mums for Lungs wrote to major funders making false claims and attempting to have funding for a charity removed. False and tenuous claims were made. This carried on for three months. They were bullies.

This is against a national children & education charity of 35 years standing, on a single issue over one event run by the charity involving a single small fire.

Leadership of Mums for Lungs and the volunteers did not respond to a single reply made formally. Look at their website where they hide all contact information for anyone. The volunteers who contacted us use 'burner' emails so that they can anonymously behave this way. They do not use formal Mums for Lungs email addresses.

Mums for Lungs is a 'one issue' campaign. This dominates any balanced debate there is to be had, as we see in this thread. It worries me that they are in schools with this approach and unbalanced approach.

If you re that far away, a bit like me, then a bit of common sense wouldn't have you in the catchment area, same as i'm outside the local housing plan, the boundaries were drawn by local consultation, to cover existing built up areas and infill.

Sometimes, when we walk down into the village, on cold still nights, the air is thick with wood and coal smoke, there really isn't any need for it, people in these circumstances often fit a WB purely for looks, not necessity.

Yes, common sense wouldn't include us. I have no confidence that common sense would be used.

Yes you re probably correct, CS is sadly missing in parish and county councils, let alone Govt, where it legs it out the window.

I don't actually care if it gives the people in the households that use it sparkly lungs or gives them cancer and dementia. I just don't want people in cities being able to use them and poison the air completely unnecessarily. My neighbours have naice houses and naice cars. They are being twats by having woodburning stoves, not saving money or having a reliable heat source in a weather disaster.

I don't think these posts, although I could be wrong are aimed at people in rural areas but perhaps people living in built up residential areas that are so close to others and the impact effecting others in different ways? Its all well & good saying that we are meant to burn certain fuel & have approved appliances because lets be honest thats not always the case, you only have to look on social media to see people with wood burners actually bragging about what the worst possible thing they can burn that night is, advertising it for all to see, how many people burn treated wood,MDF,Chipboard, soaked wood? Hundreds if not thousands.There is nobody policing it so its a free for all and thats when they get a bad name! The council properganda is just fluff, they don't care what you're burning so if you are suffering with the impact of one they'll not have any interest. I have resigned to shutting windows in the winter, and the amount of times I have seen anyone dare say they like to open windows but can't because of smoke.... gets abuse and words of to the effect "why would you have your windows open in winter", lots of people open windows in winter for many reasons, health reasons,to just let fresh air in! So I don't think should anyone open their windows in their home it should be filled with the smell of smoke or smoke itself, while its your right to have heat its also others right to not have to choke and cough on smoke in their home, also the comments from some wood burner owners if anyone says anthing slightly negative "oh they're just jealous" nobody is jealous you have one, I don't know where this saying comes from,I am not envious of anyone who has one! I am lucky enough if I want to warm my home up I can afford to put the GCH on, I do not feel jealous that my neighbour is burning left over wardrobes on their appliance for the surrounding area to smell & inhale
I think this is what people get frustrated with

Plenty people die without actually knowing they had lung cancer, that genuinley happens