HIGHLIGHTING DANGER OF WOODBURNERS

[GlassHouseBlue]

Fine particulate matter (PM2.5) -
essentially tiny particles of soot - is one
of the most dangerous air pollutants.
Breathing it in is linked to lung cancer,
heart damage, strokes, impaired cognition
and mental health problems, and can
exacerbate conditions such as asthma,
COPD and pulmonary fibrosis. Children
and elderly people are most vulnerable

I don't think I indicated that anything was "lost in translation", I just said that your over the top hyperbole may make your point (which may be valid) get lost.
No idea why you felt the need to mention your autism either, am I supposed to aplogise and change my mind?

Actually I don't even own a car. Are you concerned about the amount of microplastics which are being shed by car tyres? Because those are a leading source of particulate matter.

Obviously people living in dense areas should have central (or even district) heating. Have you seen the cost of oil or electric heating for those in rural areas who are not on gas?

Meat causes cancer it is carcinogenic.
Do you eat meat?
Do you drive or fly anywhere?
Do you have scented candles?
Watch fireworks?
Have anything in your house from China?
Do you use deodorant?
Do you wash clothes?
Use a stove?
Do you have children?

Shall we label you selfish? Thoughtless?

It’s honestly ridiculous that you have chosen to make THIS your hill to die on, when people need to keep warm. Especially as it is zero degrees with snow on the ground!

Thankfully we don’t live in a police state, and people are free to enjoy their lives and choose what brings them joy/warmth/ comfort.

And on a still, cold, windless day in my city ( where the geography means we have a number of low lying “bowl areas” where pollution can sit) if everyone lights up their burners this causes a significant peak in pollution….those peaks are what can trigger asthma attacks or cause exacerbation for those with COPD and other respiratory conditions. This IS the“ real world” , I am a respiratory specialist health professional and a local GP who lives and works in one of those areas has worked with the university to demonstrate that effect using portable pollution devices. I am well used to people really not wishing to acknowledge the impact of their smoking on theirs and their families health, I see the same attitude with those who dismiss the health effects of woodburners. Part of the reason why it’s important to discuss is once people understand the risks then they at least can make choices…it is a free society. However, urban wood burning is bad news in a city such as mine which is making policies related to car use on the back of the need to meet pollution targets. Why should those of us who have a decent income to heat our homes by better methods have free rein to increase use of woodburners when we are forcing the likes of minimum wage carers to change their cars to meet requirements of emission zones?

should we relax the rules around smoking then?

if people are free to enjoy their lives and choose what brings them joy/warmth/comfort surely they should be allowed to choose to smoke?

it smells terrible and harms others health but if they like it then they should be able to light one up in the pub.

there are things we aren’t free to choose if it affects others.

"Other things are also bad" is such a poor argument for not caring about something.

I use a log burner and I cook on a log burning stove too in the winter and it is the best way to keep warm. I don’t live in the uk but I wouldn’t want to give up wood heating.

I believe Mums for Lungs may be the charity started by a bereaved mother who's 9 year old girl died and London's air pollution was named by the coroner as a factor in her death. Woodburners are definitely not the sole cause of poor air quality but they do contribute, and some people with asthma will be uncomfortable if people nearby use them.

I had one in my last house, I loved it. Since moving I've been thinking about particulate more, I live in the middle of a town so I'm less likely to install one in this house.

While I don't think rural woodburners will do much to others, I think it probably is irresponsible if living somewhere urban to fit something that will make other people's lives more difficult.. but I do love them so if there's evidence that's wrong (from somewhere that doesn't sell woodburners) I'd be happy to be wrong!

My mistake, it is Rosamund Kissi-Debrah who is campaigning for clean air following her daughter Ella's very sad death.

www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/real-life/grieving-mum-demands-keir-starmer-29797436

Oh, I agree with you completely! It’s just that pp’s suggestion, that a Times reported study suggested candles are as bad as stoves, doesn’t even seem to be correct.

I’ve got someone round right now quoting for a stove. If you put your campaigning energy into insisting that power companies are capped at a price people can actually afford, that grants for insulation aren’t a rip-off (can only use council-specified contractors, whose prices are conveniently thrice the cost of the grants and ten times what it’d cost to do the work yourself), and even better, calling for councils to install city-wide eco power measures such as ground source and solar power that apply to whole blocks, then I’d be right behind you. As it is, my energy bills have tripled this month as the tariff has gone up, my flat is freezing, I don’t own the roof to install solar panels and I don’t have enough garden for a heat pump. I’m getting a stove with a catalytic converter that emits less carbon per kw than burning a kw of gas, using only dried logs from renewable forests, and doing the best I can to mitigate, but I need a source of heating that actually warms the place up and where I can control the cost. The radiator takes four hours to heat the room to 18 degrees.

Our neighbours regularly throw tyres on their garden bonfires creating a plume of toxic rubber smoke and the council say its perfectly fine, so I can’t see them being interested in a wood burner…

Oh dear, I don’t think you bothered to look at the underlying research did you?

OP’s post is about how harmful wood burning stoves are, and you suggested that independent evidence from the likes of DEFRA contradicted this.

The purpose of the DEFRA and the BEIS studies which you rely on was to try to establish how widespread the use of wood burning stoves is, looking at different parts of the UK, urban v rural, whether respondents had other heating sources available and the like. The DEFRA one also reports on attitudes of people to wood burning.

Interestingly it starts with this - would you say this is supportive of your point or OPs I wonder?

“Burning in a domestic setting (so called ‘domestic combustion’) creates a number of toxic
emissions which have a significant impact on human health and the environment. In
particular, fine particulate matter (PM2.5), has been associated with higher mortality rates
for people with cardiovascular and respiratory diseases.”

It also makes the following interesting finding:

“…most respondents had access to an alternative source of heating
such as gas, electricity or oil, and the vast majority used these alternatives too. Only 4% of
indoor PiT respondents said they burned solid fuel for all their heating.”

But thanks for providing further evidence to support my points that:

• Wood burning poses a significant health risk; and
• Stove manufacturers claims to the contrary are absolute rubbish, which should come as no surprise to anyone.

At most you may find DEFRA etc evidence that states that burning wet wood is much more harmful than burning seasoned wood, or modern stoves are less harmful than open fires. But that would be like saying low tar cigarettes aren’t as harmful as high tar ones, or filtered cigarettes are less damaging than filtered ones. So it wouldn’t take you very far.

Sometimes it’s better just to admit you’re wrong.

Which is exactly what I did in relation to the wood burning stove that we had installed, when I learned it was horrifically harmful to the health of my family and my neighbours.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5d84b895e5274a27c5f4a8f5/Summary_results_of_the_domestic_wood_use_survey_.pdf

It is entirely valid. You can’t pick and choose what you want to adhere to like a buffet! Lecturing others whilst stuffing hamburgers and flying overseas and a house full of plastic tat. I am exasperated.

That's not quite how pollution works.

People who have log burners also idle their cars?

Really?

How are those two things related at all?

People do smoke in their own homes and outside I am assuming. What about the list? What are you guilty of?

I am really tired of these over zealous, joy suckers looking for the next platform to lecture from all the while very much polluting themselves!!!! Stop being such a god damn hypocrite.

The risk is small compared with woodburners.

Really? Apparently not.

Pollutants from gas stoves kill 40,000 Europeans each year, report finds
Study says harmful gases linked to heart and lung disease shave nearly two years off a person’s life

Full article attached.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/28/pollutants-from-gas-stoves-kill-40000-europeans-each-year-report-finds

Go for a multifuel stove rather than just a woodburner because you'll then be able to burn smokeless ovoids which work out cheaper if you buy a bulk load. They're also lower in particulate than wood and ovoids burn more evenly.

I wish I could Pin this message to the top. This is a medical professional a GP, a respiratory health professional. Please read.

You don't propose any alternative though. Berating people who are just trying to keep warm while not spending a fortune on heating oil is unproductive. We could stop burning wood, but our oil bill would likely triple - that's not something we could afford. And of course oil is a fossil fuel so is a net contributor to global warming while wood is carbon neutral.

There are loads of things that cause air pollution.

I'll stop using a wood burner when everyone else stops using cars.

You do you. We are not interested op. You are a hypocrite.

Exactly this.
We have single glazing (not through choice) and so largely rely on heated mattress toppers for being warm in bed and the wood burner in the lounge for being warm downstairs at this time of year. I only burn kiln dried would and I live very rurally. I’m not sure if I should be feeling guilty for this but I certainly don’t. Just the act of me being alive is polluting the environment - even down to me shortly doing the school run.
I do understand how they could be antisocial with the wrong fuels burned in a built up area though.

Logburners produce omissions. This is true. So do many other things in the environment. I will not be giving up my log burner anytime soon. It is one of my favourite things anytime soon.