HIGHLIGHTING DANGER OF WOODBURNERS

[GlassHouseBlue]

Fine particulate matter (PM2.5) -
essentially tiny particles of soot - is one
of the most dangerous air pollutants.
Breathing it in is linked to lung cancer,
heart damage, strokes, impaired cognition
and mental health problems, and can
exacerbate conditions such as asthma,
COPD and pulmonary fibrosis. Children
and elderly people are most vulnerable

In my rural part of the world most houses use wood burning stoves. We have to really, we get fairly regular power cuts in winter, so a back up heat source that does not require a pump and therefore electricity is a necessity. I am not aware of anyone having any health issues or any complaints having ever been made. That being said, we know how to use a log burner and only use dry wood. The Times did some research on this a while ago and found that scented candles gave off far more particles.

I don’t have to have one, and I don’t.

if I had one I suspect I’d have no problems. However the smoke from my neighbours is causing me significant issues.

i didn’t choose to have the smoke from their chimney permeating my house every day.

this is the issue- if you have one, the smoke goes up your chimney and causes you no issues. The issues are passed on to neighbours, and who cares? As long as I’m alright jack.

likely much of the issue compared to years ago is urban housing is much denser, so more fires and more pollution. Even years ago though there were serious problems with fossil fuel fires- London smog and all that. There’s a reason smokeless zones were brought in.

my house was built in the 1800’s, fwiw, seeing as you’re such a snob about period houses.

Please post links to the independent verification, thanks.

Good for you.

yes, my downstairs does smell of smoke when the neighbours wood burner is on.

this thread is starting to fill with the “my gran smoked and never got cancer” theorists.

just because you haven’t experienced something doesn’t make it impossible.

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/08/wood-burners-in-effect-banned-new-refurbished-homes-london

London is following the evidence. Hopefully other cities will follow but so many middle class families have bought into the lifestyle round our area so it will take time for people to change.

Woodburners make sense in rural areas but not in cities and built up towns.

I didn't say it wouldn't be rash, however it's no less rash than to say all wood burners are bad.

What I actually said was that it isn't straightforward.

No need to do your research for you, you can check all the government stats, the EU regulation, DEFRA etc.

Besides, you seem to assume that I am stating that woodburners are completely clean etc. This was not my point. My point was that the OP quoted a non balanced view. I was merely demonstrating that there are non balanced views the other way, and that the truth is somewhere in between.

Says James Corbett, professor of marine policy at the University of Delaware:

"Ship pollution affects the health of communities in coastal and inland regions around the world, yet pollution from ships remains one of the least regulated parts of our global transportation system." It sounds serious, but how bad could it be? Staggeringly, if a report by the UK's Guardian newspaper is to be believed. According to their story, just one of the world's largest container ships can emit about as much pollution as 50 million cars. Further, the 15 largest ships in the world emit as much nitrogen oxide and sulphur oxide as the world's 760 million cars."

Maybe look at shipping before wood burners?

@DieStrassensindimmernass It is diluted so as to be harmless. One only notices a faint smell.

Having children is actually the worst thing for the environment.

It's appalling to see the number of posters burying heads in sand about this. They might not be bothered about the risks to their own health but what about the harm that their "cozy" burners are doing to everyone else. I'm also disgusted by some of the smug posters on here name calling and decrying those who are concerned about environmental and health impact as "eco warriors,". The denial of climate change and the burying of heads in sand is so sad to see

They might not be bothered about the risks to their own health but what about the harm that their "cozy" burners are doing to everyone else

What, the "everyone else" around me who are lighting their wood burners or coal fires every evening as well? Where we're so spread out that the smoke doesn't hang?
We'll be fine. And warm.

Didn’t say anything about my gran.
I just wonder if whole rooms actually stinking of smoke because a neighbour has a wood burner is such a common occurrence.

Maybe look at shipping before wood burners?

Nope. Look at ALL causes of environmental pollution, right now, straight away.

BTW pollution from shipping is being addressed.

Why do you assume that someone who has exercised their right to choose how to heat their home and keep their family warm, also idles their car? This is a very reductive, and rather prejudice view.
As many others have mentioned, the Ecodesign legislation for stoves, coupled with the solid fuel regulations and Smoke Control Area legislation means that modern wood burning stoves using the correct wood fuel are not only highly efficient and cost effective, they are also carbon neutral at the point of use and very low emission.
Surely if we encourage best practice (e.g. modern stove, good fuel etc.) then heating our homes with something that is carbon neutral and uses renewable, sustainable fuel is a responsible choice to make?
In terms of the traffic comparison, if we were to take just modern, Ecodesign compliant stove models using dry wood fuel, they make up just 0.3% of total UK PM2.5 emissions, compared to 17.9% from road transport.
Cigarette smoking contributes more to UK PM2.5 levels than all the modern stoves using dry wood do!!
Air pollution is an issue, but if we all do our bit to reduce emissions then we should all still be free to choose how we live our lives.

If Maggie Thatcher taught this country anything, it was not to give a sh*t about anyone else but make the most of your own life. Not a doctrine that I ever found attractive, and it’s resulted in a lot of problems down the decades. However, 40 years on, and seeing all the utter selfishness and me, me, that I’m now surrounded by, I am happily embracing two vices. A lovely multi fuel burning stove that keeps us warm and saves us a lot of money (access to a lot of free, seasoned wood) and a great big 4x4 that means we never get stuck in the snow. No conscience around keeping my children/ grandchildren safe, we don’t have any. And what London chooses to do……….don’t give a toss.

But apparently smoke from chimneys is poisoning entire neighbourhoods.

Therefore smokey BBQs being outside would not exclude them from being death machines.

Or is It just wood burner smoke that's dangerous?

People tend not bbq daily for 10 hours a day for 5/6 months of the year.

one house having a bbq for a couple of hours a day three or four times in the summer does not compare with a significant amount of homes burning wood all day every day in winter.

bbq’s are also charcoal not wood.

If you mean this article, it says scented candles and cleaning products give contain and give off Volatile Organic Compounds. That’s not the same as the particulate matter given off by burning wood, and the article doesn’t suggest candles etc are worse than or as bad as burning wood - it makes no comparison (and I don’t pretend to know the relative harm of each).

Scented candles and carpets pollute air inside your home

www.thetimes.com/article/6da21b96-3163-11e9-b50c-c6da8f614c54?shareToken=ddf83b5611b4557e25d7af1a7a086011

@GlassHouseBlue thank u Op….seeing as how long it took for people to take their fingers out of their ears about the dangers of passive smoking I’m not confident how long it will take for people to accept the risks of wood burners! People really don’t understand the need to think locally ….this is about the risks to your own kids in your own home and risks to immediate neighbours. Living in poverty? …I don’t have a problem if you need to burn stuff to keep warm; living rurally with few neighbours and risk of blackouts during winter/ no other heating option? ….I don’t have a problem. Living in a built up area with close neighbours, adequate central heating and the cash to pay for it?…I do have a problem. The vast proliferation of wood burners ( which cost ££££ to purchase) has occurred due to financially well off individuals for aesthetic reasons not for necessary reasons.

It’s a choice to pollute your own home though.

my objection is to others polluting my home.

See diagram

There are different types of fire/ log burner owner and lumping us all together does nothing for your cause.

Me. HETA log burner owner. Only buys kiln dried logs. Moisture tests everything. Gets the flue cleaned every year. Carbon monoxide monitor. Lights the burner 3/4 times a week, in the evening, if it’s really cold or damp and some times on a Sunday afternoon. Sees my log burner as a nice cosy addition to heating our home and an emergency back up if the gas/ electric supply is disrupted.

My DB. Rural. No gas. Electric storage heaters ridiculously expensive to run and doesn’t keep the damp out anyway. Log burner/ stove ( with back burner). Burns his own 2 year old wood.

Bob down the road. Burns anything and everything on a big open fire.

Go after Bob first.

Eventually…

I’m not going to waste my time looking for research that I strongly suspect doesn’t exist - obviously!

While you’re now trying to row back from it, your point was very clear: that it doesn’t matter that stove companies clearly have a vested interest in reporting that stoves aren’t harmful, because those reports can be independently verified.

You must be aware of and have read such independent reports to have responded that way, so I’ll ask you again: please supply references to those reports.

If you again decline to do so, it really leads to only one conclusion…..