Who's in the wrong ? Big fight with H

[bluba]

I called him today as I yet again had bad feedback from nursery regarding my youngest.

It keeps happening and it's upsetting and stressful. My H thinks I don't ' handle ' people properly and should ' put them in their place '. Letting them know that our child is only young and just needs a cuddle and that it's normal kids act up and they should ' just deal with it' .

I disagree with this exact approach and like to hear out the nursery workers to get an understanding of what's going on. Anyway today, they gave bad feedback about aggressive behaviour and I didn't really have time to chat for too long or delve into it. I listened to the complaint and kind of went ' oh no ' ' ok ', I'll chat to my child at home. I was rushed off my feet and needed to get going to get my other child. Plus, some other parents were there and I wasn't in a mood to have this chat in front of them. My plan is to ask for an actual meeting ( away from pick up and drop off times, as you can't really talk properly ).

Anyway, H kept asking why I didn't discuss it further. He literally asked me, not kidding 8 times on the phone why I didn't ' put them in their place '. I said I didn't have time delve and needed to go. ' but why didn't you ? ' ' why do you always let them get away with stuff '... etc etc. in the end I shouted and hung up the phone and told him F off. I know. I'm not proud. I just lost it.

Then when he came home, we talked about it again and he asked me again why didn't I tell them that our child is really young etc and I again got mad and said to F off ( I think ). He then lost it and said I'm the reason my child is aggressive.

Our kids were watching TV in the other room so didn't hear us swearing but came in once they heard us shouting at each other and told us to stop shouting. We did and we apologised to them for getting angry with each other and explained how sometimes people fight but they talk about things and make up again.

I know, neither of us is coming off particularly well here. I've been really calm lately in general. I've not shouted or got angry in the last six months but I have been known to occasionally get angry at my husband because he just does not hear me sometimes, like today. I've really worked on it and I don't think it's fair to blame me on my child's issues at nursery at the moment.

I think what he said was extremely hurtful and way worse than what I said to him. I just don't feel like he hears me.

Anyway, I'm sure most responses will just say we are both idiots.

@Sceptical123 have a look at the post I addressed to @Dappy777. I explain what he means by putting people in their place.

It's not aggressive or losing it, in fact he accuses me of not being able to handle situations with people by becoming annoyed / showing my emotions too much. Not with the nursery but in general.

In any case, I guess a good way to describe it is that he doesn't think I advocate enough for our kids and always go with what the teacher says and I also ask the teachers/ nursery for advice sometimes when we are just in conversation. He thinks I ' let them in ' too much and give them reasons to open up a negative dialogue.

I don't think I really do that but it just seems appropriate when they're saying ' oh we've noticed X did this ', I might say - oh yes, X did this at home too. This is what I did, it hasn't worked yet to stop the behaviour. What did you do ? Did it work ? He thinks it's wrong that I'm ' agreeing ' with them. I see it more like, we all have the best interests of the child at heart and are comparing notes and strategies.

Do you disagree about parenting in general?
Kids will learn that quickly.
You will both have to make an effort to listen to each other. There may be clashes of ideas but kids living with both parents need them to be on roughly the same page for positive parenting to happen. Is that possible?

You said earlier you told your child you were 'fighting '.
Can you switch the to arguing/disagreeing?
I only mention this because of an awkward conversation a friend had with a teacher after her child told them her parents had been 'fighting' alot.
Obviously arguing isnt great, but fighting can conjour other meanings and scenarios.

Good point about the fighting thing.

In general we don't massively disagree on parenting, thankfully.

Sorry, I didn’t read that. I think what you’re doing is right in asking for advice from others who may have similar experiences. Your husband may be concerned that they will be making a note of these conversations and it will be building a negative picture towards your family and parenting. I can see why he’d be defensive in allowing ‘outsiders’ to know too much of personal aspects, maybe because they know you and your family, but at the same time that’s useful for getting accurate advice, so you’re not in the wrong for what you have done. Raising children is not easy and there is a lot of pressures and fears of repercussions for saying things that can be misconstrued etc. Good luck with settling your son.

Where I live nursery places are scarce and if I'd 'put them in their place' my child would have been asked to leave and I'd have no childcare! Yanbu but if you both argue and swear in earshot of the kids, perhaps that's part of the reason behind their behaviour at nursery

I thought the same and I'd be tempted to ask him what he means by "putting them in their place". What "place" would that be?

Your youngest would have heard you say fuck off down the phone? Kids copy. You guys sound like you need to work on your communication style.

OP I've been in your shoes over the years with an unhelpful reactive DH. All i learned was to very carefully manage what I tell him and when - I don't raise anything tricky or complicated during the workday as he just explodes and overreacts like yours did, often at me like yours did. Dont discuss anything before he's eaten, or if the children are in the room either to cushion any impact. Dont expect much of a helpful response about anything.
It's quite lonely but much more peaceful - you clearly know how to deal with issues more appropriately so just give him a brief high level update after you've sorted it next time and save yourself the bother 😏

It’s not a mystery as to where the toddler gets their aggressive behaviour from is it? And on what planet is it seen as a positive to argue in front of young children? It really isn’t. .

Ok, I’m prepared to get flamed here (tin hat on and ready) but am I right in reading that you had a 3 way phone conversation with your DH and 2 year old son, on the phone, in the car, on the way home? Because that in itself is a reckless act. Why would you do that whilst driving?! You are not just putting yourself and son in danger but other road users too. If you have such little lack of self awareness of how dangerous (and illegal) that was, you may need to rethink your stance that the arguments you have with your DH have no lasting impact on your child. It sounds to me that you act impulsively and in the moment when faced with a crisis and maybe finding ways to learn how not to act on impulse and stepping back in the moment, may be more helpful for you, to have time and space about how you might want to deal with a difficult situation?

But are you guys seriously telling me that parents never argue in front of their children ?

No, people are telling you that parents SHOULDN'T argue in front of their children, especially if those arguments involve shouting and telling each other to fuck off IN FRONT OF YOUR TWO YEAR OLD. Jesus H Christ.

We argued in front of our now teens ONCE when they were primary age and it upset them and they still remember it.

We are not “perfect” but Dh is a litigator so very good at not having arguments - we just discuss things. Calmly like reasonable adults. We now have calm reasonable teens and I have never once been contacted by any third party about their behaviour in 18 years.

Is your child 2 or 4....not many 2 year olds can constructively describe events that happened a few hours ago let alone be unbiased and admit what they did ....it's still a conversation for a time you can fully attend not when you should be concentrating on driving. But inappropriate to involve your child at that level anyway.

It's a situation that's gone tits up overall. The nursery sounds weird. Toddlers are often aggressive without it necessarily being anyone's fault, it's a stage. Your husband is a patronising wanker who can do this himself if he's so clever. And finally, where I would draw the line is him directly accusing you of fuelling any negative behaviour in your kids - whether that's true or not it's a toxic discussion. I actually think that about my DH, but I broach the topic more in a "I wonder why DS is shouting at you, could it be that he didn't like you shouting at him, but I get it, we all lose it sometimes" etc. Not what I'm actually thinking....

He sounds aggressive. If I got that call from nursery I'd be concerned and want to hear more. The thought of "putting them in their place" wouldn't enter my head!
Is tgis how he navigates life in general? Confronting people and putting them in their place?

Totally agree with the last bit about impulsiveness etc. but how is it illegal to have a phone call in your car on Bluetooth ?

@jannier 2 and a half but able to describe things form their point of view. I have a chat each day before we go in about good behaviour etc and the child is able to tell me who pushed them or what happened. Whether it's actually true is another matter.

But my child explained that they were angry because they wanted a a tractor and they took it and then cried. That kind of level of explanation.

I don't think it's wrong to ask what happens and give a voice. Of course I don't take it as gospel.

When he repeatedly asked you the same queation did you say to him 'can you stop asking me that, I've already answered that question' on repeat? Does he realise that he asks the same question again and again and that everyone has different ways of dealing with things (and no one is necessarily wrong)

Which is it he wants you to do? Take the blame for your child’s behaviour, or put the nursery people in their place? Two totally opposing views. He’s a bully and he’s pressing your buttons. Why don’t you suggest he organise an appointment and then he can put them in their place as he sees fit.
You however handled the brief meeting as you saw fit at that point in time.

Fair point OP, it isn’t illegal. It is not recommended though as it can impair the drivers ability and given the situation you’ve described there would have been a lot of distractions.

I just want to say that mumsnet can be a very good support system for mums generally - it may seem like some of what has been said isn't very helpful but a lot of it comes from those who have been in your shoes and just want to help you unpick the whole thing and reframe it into something workable that can actually guide you through the storms - one parent has to stay rational and supportive if the other is losing their cool - two parents losing it at each other is no help to anyone. Try to break the habit of ringing each other at work to let off steam - by the time you're both home in the evening 6 other things might have happened to distract you and the urgent issue will have lost steam in hindsight.

Totally get the thing about not talking at work. I'm not sure I clarified, we were talking while he was on his way home.

So you were both driving whilst having this conversation or one of you was?

I'm not sure why that matters ? I really don't get it.

Even if we were both driving, we have been driving for 20 years and live somewhere where it's literally bumper to bumper traffic the whole way. You never go faster than 20 miles an hour, if that.

It's perfectly safe to talk on the phone via your Bluetooth when you're driving and god forbid, sometimes even have an argument. When we were having the bulk of the discussion I was in a queue for the entire time, standing still. It's not a big deal. I am on the phone through Bluetooth whilst driving a lot, because I am in the car a lot.

This. You needed further clarification about your dc and failed to get it twice. Your dh dies sound a bit if a know all know though.