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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Child allowed choices

120 replies

TheBlueHare · 16/11/2024 07:26

We have a 12 year old relative who we haven’t seen for years.
Father always gives choices. Would you like to go and see so and so. He says no and that’s the end of that.
The mother doesn’t help as she says ‘he doesn’t haveto go if he doesn’t want to’.
12 year old now never listens to his father.
we haven’t seen him for years.
I have been in touch explaining my concerns how we don’t do family things etc but no reply.
My Mumhas explained multiple times a child shouldn’t be giving choices about seeing family etc but it isn’t being listened to.
The child is running rings around his parents….and he knows it.

OP posts:
Sonolanona · 16/11/2024 10:22

Not everyone likes family gathering and they don't have to.
I avoid every possible gathering (including weddings) as they make me anxious and i find them incredibly tedious. I hated them as a child too, and just preferred my own space. DH has a big family... if he wants to go, or the kids want to go they do, if not they don't. I rarely go and I don't do Xmas socials at work etc either although I am friendly with colleagues. It hasn't held me back it just makes me happier!
My kids are now adults, all socially adept and did not suffer for being able to choose whether they met their aunties and cousins.
Your judgement is awful...it's clear your SIL doesn't like gatherings and either your brother isn't bothered or prefer to support his wife and son.
And if you somehow have soooo much info but apparently haven't seen them for years, how about just minding your own business and letting them be!

NImumconfused · 16/11/2024 10:42

Downtherabbithole19 · 16/11/2024 09:41

I give my children a choice on family gatherings. Some situations they don't get a choice and we go.

But being a child who was told to put other people's feelings first and mine last, I grew up being a massive people pleaser and felt guilty about putting my needs or feelings first.

It took me a lot of therapy, my children have very busy weeks so if at the weekend they don't want to go and social event they are not expected to.

This is the downside of OP's approach, especially for women - you end up putting your needs last, and sometimes prioritising the wrong people.

OP, it sounds from your later posts that you're suggesting your brother would like to be more sociable but maybe that his wife doesn't? Why don't you try encouraging him to come to some family events on his own and see what happens? There's a chance either the son will get curious about what his dad's up to and ask to come, or (slightly more deviously) his wife might get fed up with being left dealing with a child who says they don't want to go but then regrets it and moans, and consider sending him the next time so she gets some peace!

TheForestCalls · 16/11/2024 10:43

You seem to know a lot about them for not having seen them for years.

I sometimes ask my children if they want to go to things. If they say no, we don't go. That's because I don't want to go but I want to give my child the opportunity to go and not miss out because of me. So I ask them, to give them the chance, rather than decide for them that we're not going.

I asked my DD last week if she wanted to go to a particular Christmas party. I don't want to go. If she says she wants to go, I'll go - for her. Yay that she doesn't want to go.

JustinThyme · 16/11/2024 10:44

Your SIL hates your family gatherings, you said so in a previous post. “Asking her son” is her get out of jail free card.

You think they are missing out on important family bonding; they think they’ve dodged a bullet.

Given how you and your Mum judge their parenting, I can’t imagine a get together would be a barrel of laughs for anyone. Leave little Lord Fauntleroy and his parents to their own devices.

Edingril · 16/11/2024 10:46

TheBlueHare · 16/11/2024 07:51

Gosh, we understand fully it’s not our place to say certain things which we wouldn’t dream of doing.
But can see what lies ahead in years to come. This lavished child, given everything, if one parent says no goes to other parent to get what they want, has a say in absolutely everything.
Parents not working together. Using different strategies.

It's not your child, you seem obsessed

zingally · 16/11/2024 10:47

You do seem to know an awful lot about the family dynamics of a group of people you haven't seen in years.

Of course, it is sad if they never do anything with the extended family, and their parenting probably isn't doing the kid any favours long-term, but I think this is one of those situations where you have to just shrug and leave them to it. The kid probably says no to everything because he has no experience of anything. That's entirely a parenting issue. They've bred a slightly odd, reclusive kid because of their own parenting inadequacies.

Is there any chance your brother is on the spectrum? My sister and her partner both are, and neither have any real comprehension of family obligations and that sense of sometimes you just have to suck it up and do the dutiful family thing, whether you really want to or not.
Like, do I really want to travel 5 hours, mid-week, for my cousins second wedding? Not especially if I'm honest. But do I do it anyway? Yeah.

GreyCarpet · 16/11/2024 11:41

Littlemissgobby · 16/11/2024 09:11

So you don’t think kids should know their extended family I find that sad. Yes maybe he is missing out on that but doesn’t realise it. It’s a shame

But maybe he's not 'missing out on anything. Or anything that the OP's brother and his wife consider to be any great loss.

CrispieCake · 16/11/2024 12:46

You don't appear to like this child much. Why exactly do you want to see him?

GRex · 16/11/2024 13:27

This thread reminds me of why I'm always grateful when SisIL's family visit from overseas, that it reminds her she absolutely does not want to move back to live near them, so they stay near us. For example, a "bad kid" story from over 3 years ago about one of the DNs dragged out again. It simply isn't relevant, none of it is, and the judgemental nastiness is very bloody noticeable actually.

  • So 3 years ago you last saw the boy, he was 9. He ran around a bit making noise and wanting to play computer games, sounds like every other 9yo boy. Doubtful his behaviour at 12 is the same as at age 9, that's 1/4 of his life ago.
  • 3 years ago he didn't have friends over, it was during covid lockdowns so yeah, no shit. This means nothing about what he does now.
  • He didn't recognise relatives he hadn't seen for years. Well no, he wouldn't, he hadn't seen them since he was 6? 7? Why would you think he would recognise them, it would be a bit unusual if he did?
  • You and your mum have spent lots of time telling your DB and SisIL how you think they're doing everything wrong in parenting and should do it differently. They may not have enjoyed that experience.
  • Kid is supposed to have fun at the beach and gets stroppy, kid misses out on beach, kid gets sad. That's called natural consequences, so he'll learn for next time not to dick about if he's off for a treat.
  • Sometimes activities conflict; we have had to choose between birthday parties, weddings and even once between two funerals on the same day. Your events will be picked more often if the last one was a nice experience for those attending.

If you want to know this child, be friendly to the parents and be nice about him at all times. Offer a visit to something they would all like, a pub near them with retro video games for example. Rebuild the relationship in small fun doses. Then they might want to hang out with you.

Macaroni46 · 16/11/2024 13:34

I hear you OP but you'll get few agreeing with you on here. The general default always seems to be to disagree with the OP and dream up ever more spurious excuses and reasons for why YABU! 🤷‍♀️

Maria1979 · 16/11/2024 13:37

GreyCarpet · 16/11/2024 07:54

That sounds hugely overwhelming. A big family event with people from all over the world?

I'm not sure I'd want to go to that. Well, I know I wouldn't.

Maybe your brother doesn't either and is using his son as a convenient excuse not to attend.

Haha I was thinking the same thing. It made me exhausted just to read it. My children would love to gi though and I have no animal to blame either so I guess I'd had to make up a migraine or something

NiceCutRoundDomeDormice · 16/11/2024 13:41

Macaroni46 · 16/11/2024 13:34

I hear you OP but you'll get few agreeing with you on here. The general default always seems to be to disagree with the OP and dream up ever more spurious excuses and reasons for why YABU! 🤷‍♀️

I don’t see any spurious reasons here. OP is trying to tell her brother how to parent because she’s right and he’s wrong. He unsurprisingly disagrees. What are you expecting people to say - “You’re right; he should do exactly as you say”?

Also, even if you agree with the OP that a better relationship with her extended family would be nice, you could still think she was being unreasonable to think she had the right to it.

SillySeal · 16/11/2024 14:21

I'm somewhere in the middle. I do believe children should be given a choice but not for everything. If one of our dc said they didn't want to.go somewhere it wouldn't mean we all wouldn't go. It would depend on the situation if we let them stay home or made them go.

I do believe us constantly having open conversations and giving the dc choices have been good for us. Our dc are polite, kind, well mannered, empathetic lovely people who are going down positive paths so far in life.

However, it sounds more like they are pandering to the child rather than it just being an issue of them giving him choices. I don't think a child should make all the decisions for the whole family. Although I'm not sure there much if anything you can do about it. Most people do not appreciate parenting advice if they feel judged no matter how well meaning.

GRex · 16/11/2024 14:39

it sounds more like they are pandering to the child rather than it just being an issue of them giving him choice
How do you get to a judgement of "pandering to the child" based on OP who hasn't met him in 3 years, and barely knew him before that? OP knows nothing about this child nor how he is parented, she's literally just criticising incessantly from a distance with her mum, with no idea that the irritation of that behaviour is likely to be the main reason why the sibling's family steer clear!

Snorlaxo · 16/11/2024 19:02

GRex · 16/11/2024 14:39

it sounds more like they are pandering to the child rather than it just being an issue of them giving him choice
How do you get to a judgement of "pandering to the child" based on OP who hasn't met him in 3 years, and barely knew him before that? OP knows nothing about this child nor how he is parented, she's literally just criticising incessantly from a distance with her mum, with no idea that the irritation of that behaviour is likely to be the main reason why the sibling's family steer clear!

I agree. OP said that brother’s wife used to sit on her own and roll her eyes at family gatherings so blaming the child is a convenient excuse. It’s interesting that brother doesn’t attend on his own. I suspect that he does not enjoy family gatherings either.

Clutterchaos · 17/11/2024 00:00

Macaroni46 · 16/11/2024 13:34

I hear you OP but you'll get few agreeing with you on here. The general default always seems to be to disagree with the OP and dream up ever more spurious excuses and reasons for why YABU! 🤷‍♀️

So what do you think OP should do? Call her brother and demand he brings the child at once? Then what, berate him for his 'poor parenting' that she hasn't observed?

OppsUpsSide · 17/11/2024 00:05

I voted YABU but realised I don’t actually stick to that. I expect my DC to show their wider family the same respect they receive and also care and understanding as relatives have difficult times or age and aren’t as exciting as they once were.
I think good familial relationships are important as we grow and sometimes teens and young adults need some support and direction with that.

Maria1979 · 17/11/2024 07:19

Clutterchaos · 17/11/2024 00:00

So what do you think OP should do? Call her brother and demand he brings the child at once? Then what, berate him for his 'poor parenting' that she hasn't observed?

This. And also I think that they are using their DC in order to bail out. If they really wanted to come one of them could while the other one stayed at home. The OP hasn't seen the kid for years and only got ragots to base her opinion upon. Ofcourse a child shouldn't dictate whether to go to a family outing but we have no idea if this is what's happening here.

GreyCarpet · 17/11/2024 07:57

Macaroni46 · 16/11/2024 13:34

I hear you OP but you'll get few agreeing with you on here. The general default always seems to be to disagree with the OP and dream up ever more spurious excuses and reasons for why YABU! 🤷‍♀️

On threads like this, I think most people try and understand why it might be the case from the other person's perspective.

We don't actually know what any of these large family gatherings where everyone has a whale of a time involve.

For example.

Are their family get togethers quite sedate? Food, small amount of alcohol (no one has ever really come close to being drunk), games, chat, laughter with everyone driving home at the end of the night. A couple of people like to sit around discussing obscure Russian literature, depending on who attends, there is sometimes are air of intellectual competition but its ok because it's all good natured and and polite and just people exercising their brains for half an hour or so. Everyone has a whale of a time and it would be a shame to miss out on that.

Or do they look like huge amounts of food, huge amounts of alcohol where all the adults get very drunk, slightly reckless behaviour, unsupervised children running riot and hanging out of the upstairs windows. Hosts who insist everyone stays even though the house isn't really big enough so everyone just muddles through and chaos ensues. Some people love all that - big loud, happy, rambunctious stuff. Stuff gets broken, accidents happen and its all just part of the chaotic fun of a party. Everyone has a whale of a time and it would be a shame to miss out on that.

Or does it involve music, games, chat, conversation, an ill considered karaoke session, maybe a christmas film. It's all adults so people get a bit tipsy but no more than that. Everyone has a whale of a time.

Or maybe the hosts ae functioning alcohhoics who consider everyone to be having a whale of a time if everyone is drunk, loud and crashing about and an argument is par for the course. Sometimes someone has eventually dramatically left in tears and other have gone to find them... but, when they dust has settled, they ever that until x,y opr z happened, everyone was having a whale of a time.

Those all describe get togethers hosted by me, my sibling, my parents, my exh husband's parents and my current partners various extended family members on all sides and most of which I've attended at various points.

And I can tell you, family or not; cousins or not, the quiet non drinkers don't want to be around the loud, aggressive alcoholics; the ones who parent their childen well don't want their children around the unsupervised ones because they're not having good cousinly fun, they're running riot and getting hurt and the ones who like to get on the garden bucking bronco pissed think the ones who engage in intellectual debate are boring.

The bigger the family is, the less likely it is that everyone enjoys similar things and the less likely that family gatherings are to everyone's tastes.

We don't know what the OP's family gatherings look like and everyone who hosted the above parties did so because it was their idea of a fun night.

In the end, no big family get together ever happen/ed and people just get together in smaller groups with the family members they most aligned with.

The brother and sister in law could just as easily be the intellectual thinkers who want to discuss wine and holidays to Lake Garda as they could be the ones wondering why no one else is getting pissed and they're all so boring.

GreyCarpet · 17/11/2024 08:09

People are still commenting on the wisdom of giving the child the choice.

I think this is a huge red herring.

As others have said, the adults, for whatever reason, don't want to be involved in these events and are just using the son's reticence as an excuse.

It's a shame for them that they don't have a family they feel more a part of or welcomed into.

People are responding to this thread (in both directions) based upon their own experiences of their own family and their own family get togethers. But none of us has any idea of what these large annual family gatherings look like because she hasn't described them to us (fair enough) so we all think about our own.

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