Are men disposable?

[BigFishLittleFish10]

My husband believes that men are disposable.

His views -

Men are f&@!ed over after a divorce and the woman end up with everything/custody of the children.

Men are used by society, worked to death then disposed of when society is finished with them.

Male suicide is an epidemic and society seeing men as disposable is one of the reasons.

Women and Mothers are cherished. Men are thrown away.

He’s made reference to women and children first on the Titanic and how the men were left to die.

Men dying in wars etc.

He refuses to believe that women face death, sexual assaults and violence in romantic relationships more than men face violence at the hands of their partners.

Believes that men have harder lives than women.

This week our son had a medical issue and I knew (gut instinct) that he wasn’t right and needed attention. I mentioned “Mothers intuition” and that riled him up - “Dads don’t matter then!”

He essentially has a chip on his shoulder about the issue.

I’ll be leaving the marriage eventually (other issues) but just wondering what everyone’s views are on this topic? Thanks.

Women are generally much poorer after a divorce

Your h is chatting shit. Poor little victim man.

Just a standard misogynist by the sounds of it.

Sex actually more important than class in Titanic survival (third class women had better odds than first class men). Would be interesting to see that shift over time to today.

misogynist. Bin him. Teach your boys better.

The male suicide epidemic is a complex issue and one linked to toxic masculinity/men afraid to show emotions and share their feelings

This is no doubt true to an extent, but has always struck me a very female explanation of male suicide. ie, why aren’t they more like women. I think feeling purposeful and masterful, having a role, and fixing objective problems is often more the point. My anecdotal experience anyway, from talking to various male friends over the years about depression. Lots of practical tips exchanged, problems puzzled through and readings recommended. Emotion and empathy, yes, too, but not as the main exercise.

I think whatever works is good, and don’t mean to detract from any other method or suggest women don’t do the above too. But the ‘depressed men? They just don’t express their emotions enough’ always felt a bit off, like ‘depressed women? They just haven’t don’t the right reading’ would.

OP - how awful. And unattractive. I hope you find the strength to move on and show your sons that this isn't normal.

This. What has he been watching online? I'd start talking to your son asap to inoculate him from this misogyny

Maybe men are disposable.

I mean, we are recognising that we don't want their violence, their control, their abuse. We survive without them.

Maybe that's why they've been so controlling and abusive over centuries. Because they actually know women will be fine even better off without them. They're scared.

This one is.

Has your husband been watching Peppa Pig, OP? Someone was posting just the other day about her husband kicking off over how hard the poor menz have it in life. He was triggered by watching the tribulations of Daddy Pig. 😀

On average two women are killed a week in the UK.

Mainly by an ex or current partner.

8 out of 10 sexual assaults in secondary schools are committed by boys.

3 out of 5 girls have been sexually assaulted in secondary schools.

3 out of 5 women have been sexually assaulted.

I couldn't stay married to an MRA

Respectfully,

Your husband sounds like a prat.

I can’t stand the kind of thinking shown by this man. They hear that women have problems, so think it means that we are saying men don’t have problems. Everything with them has to be one side versus the other side. You wouldn’t imagine that half their ancestors are women.

When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression. This is why so many men are in victim mode right now. They now feel really hard done by and victimised because they no longer have the privilege to just do and say whatever they want. Their victim complex and complete lack of emotional intelligence and critical thinking skills makes them tiresome, insufferable and incredibly irritating and you then get them bleating on like the OPs husband.

Glad you’re getting rid OP.

You’re right OP in that both sexes have their challenges. Overall being a woman is less advantageous than being a man. He has some good points but what he has done is compared upper class women to working class men in a few items to get an across the board men have it worse view. He has points but he isn’t considering it is a double edged sword in a lot of cases. What appears to be an advantage can also be a disadvantage.

Men are f&@!ed over after a divorce and the woman end up with everything/custody of the children.
Yes generally the father only gets custody if the mother refuses or is found unfit. Society pressures both mothers and fathers into this as well by pushing the common view that children are better off with a single mum than a single dad. Women who leave their children with their dad are harshly judged, while men are expected to move out and put up with a bedsit while mum and kids keep the family home. Whoever has the children, usually gets the bulk of the joint marital assets because children are expensive, but both partners will experience a sharp decline in living standards which makes them both feel “fucked over.” So yes divorce fucks over everyone involved.

Men are used by society, worked to death then disposed of when society is finished with them.
Yes this is true of working class men (and women). More privileged women, say a GP, do get treated better than say a bin man, or window washer or security guard.

Male suicide is an epidemic and society seeing men as disposable is one of the reasons.
Yes, mental health in men isn’t treated very seriously and society also tells men to put up and shut up, don’t cry, don’t admit weakness. Women have always been thought of as hysterical, unstable and so on so we are more likely to be listened to and seek help. This isn’t an advantage though when seeking healthcare for physical issues- men are taken more seriously for pain and physical symptoms while women are told it’s in our heads and to take an antidepressant.

Women and Mothers are cherished. Men are thrown away.
Yes, there is a lot of mother worshipping in our culture while Dads are portrayed as useless fools or just sperm donors. Being the default parent isn’t the advantage he thinks it is though. As “being thrown away” also means set free with less responsibility to be the Carer of everyone else.

He’s made reference to women and children first on the Titanic and how the men were left to die.
This is a class issue. It was 1st class women and children, then 1st class men, then 2nd class women and children….then all the rest died. So all the 2nd class men and all the 3rd class men, women and children who had been locked below decks…

Men dying in wars etc.
This is a class issue- upper class men and women are happy to send working class men to their deaths in war.

He refuses to believe that women face death, sexual assaults and violence in romantic relationships more than men face violence at the hands of their partners.
Well 3/4ths of murder victims are men, not women. Women are more likely to be killed in their own home by partner, ex or relative while men are more likely to be killed by a stranger outside their home. Contrary to popular belief, the murder of men isn’t all criminals in drugs/gang wars- as in their fault they got killed type of comments you sometimes see. This is a different challenge the sexes face though- but at least men get to feel safe in their own home, whereas women are the least safe in their own home. But on the other hand some women are really silly insisting men don’t know what it feels like to feel unsafe when outside the home.

Sounds like incel garbage.

But he he bloody serious?? 😭 Men have it harder? Men, who hold the vast majority of systemic and political power around the world? Men, who benefit from patriarchy and religious institutions?

Last time I looked in the history books, it isn't men who have been banned from certain professions. It isn't men who were denied their own bank accounts and money. It isn't men who had to fight for the right to vote. It isn't men being persecuted in Afghanistan.

It's laughable honestly 😭

So would he come back as a woman? Not many men would...

When are you leaving?

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"Summary
From the acclaimed philosopher and author of One-Dimensional Woman, a bold, playful and open-minded exploration of the role of men in the twenty-first century

Something is definitely up with men. From millions online who engage with the manosphere to the #metoo backlash, from Men's Rights activists and incels to spiralling suicide rates, it's easy to see that, while men still rule the world, masculinity is in crisis.

How can men and women live together in a world where capitalism and consumerism has replaced the values - family, religion, service and honour - that used to give our lives meaning? Feminism has gone some way towards dismantling the patriarchy, but how can we hold on to the best aspects of our metaphorical Father?

With illuminating writing from an original, big-picture perspective, Nina Power unlocks the secrets hidden in our culture to enable men and women to practice playfulness and forgiveness, and reach a true mutual understanding and a lifetime of love."

Tbf, most men didn’t have the right to vote until the first women had the right to vote in 1918. Working class men were barred from professions longer than upper class women were. History is a bit more complex and there are intersections of sex, class, and race.

Most of what he said is rubbish. When it comes to things like DV or SA, the vast majority of victims are male and the vast majority of perpetrators are female.

Male suicide rates are worrying but as a pp said, it appears higher than female rates because men are more likely to choose more successful methods.
The method of suicide has a huge effect on success rates. Most attempted suicides involving guns, for example, are successful which is why the suicide rate is far higher in parts of the US than it is in the UK.

What you have said to your dc about both sexes having their own difficulties is a good way to put things.

The only thing he was correct on was women's survival rates on the Titanic. I listened to The Rest is History Titanic series and the traditional cry of Women and Children First was definitely applied.

When you think about it, that makes sense from an evolutionary point of view.

If a small tribe was in danger, tens of thousands of years ago, the priority would be to ensure the tribe's survival. Each woman would probably be able to bear one child per year whereas one man could impregnate a number of women so you need more women than men to produce children in order for the tribe to continue.

If you share custody equally and split the finances equally post-divorce, you'll have proven one of his points incorrect. In your case at least.😂

Yes and No.

The 'women and children first' thing is fairly recent. It seems to arise from a military shipwreck where the officer in charge ordered the men to remain until the wien and children had been offloaded before trying to get off themselves. Prior to this it was a fee for all.

Same with wars. Civilians always got the worst if it. Even with the Romans and before the armies laid waste to all around. The modern armies are supposed to treat civilians better. War crimes is I believe a fairly recent invention.

As for toxic masculinity and or their behaviour, you only need to read mumsnet to see how many women seem to find them attractive and marry them (until they get fed up with it - usually after children). There are decent easy going well mannered men but I suspect they're at the back of the queue of desirable men after the fun exciting guys.

Ask him who he thinks ‘society’ is. Who decided men were ‘disposable’ and women cherished’?

Well women want men when they want sex or children then it is 'my baby so I decide what happens' dont want to work but have to rely on a man to finance them, then they split up and the women don't want 50/50 but they want the man's money

So men are fine if a women can find a use for them

I thought this was going to be "are men disposable" as in "can women live good, fulfilling lives without them" to which the answer is a resounding yes.

What the incels/MRAs et al fail to see is that the supposed ways in which men have it harder mostly come down to patriarchy fucking over men as well as women. Men bearing the brunt of military action and manual labour is the result of masculinity being tied to fulfilling a role of being a strong protector/provider while femininity was tied to nurturing in the domestic sphere. Two sides of the same patriarchal coin. Male suicide is the result of masculinity being associated with stoicism, bottling feelings up and never crying.

Patriarchy is the root of it all but the trouble is a lot of men still want the privileges it affords them so they'll never fight the real enemy.