To voluntarily put my child into care

[Crumplesock]

We are at the point now where we think we may need to either put our eldest into the care system or seperate and live in 2 seperate homes to keep our children apart for fear that the eldest will seriously harm the younger two children. However, I'm not sure how we will actually finance two seperate homes (even 2 x 1bedroom flats).

Our son is autistic with a PDA profile. We are low demand parenting, and he does not attend school after being excluded and we are following his lead in Home Education. We followed the At Peace Parenting Course (which is amazing and so insightful, if not a little crazy on price!) but she told us we need to radically accept that this is our son's disability, this is part of it and we need to accommodate it. She shared how her family had to live sperately for a while. We are being advised by all the professionals that we are doing all we can for our son's needs and are accommodating and parenting him in line with his disabilities. But I just feel so broken at it.

As our son is getting bigger, his level of aggression is increasing and becoming harder to manage. We attempt to keep the children separated at all times but this is hard when there is only 1 parent at home and all 3 do need to be watched constantly.

Our other two children, and us parents too, are receiving multiple injuries daily.

Our son has taken to doing home workouts, which is absolutely brilliant and I want to encourage a healthy lifestyle but his strength is crazy. I've witnessed him do 20+ pull ups, he can now lift 1.5× his bodyweight in a Deadlift. I spoke to him about this passion of his and he said its so he can always make sure he is the strongest and to make people scared of him.

I know deep down there's a scared boy in there, whose doing this as a reaction to school trauma and being pushed around by school bullies (he had it quite bad). But it also terrifies me at how he is stronger than me and it won't be long before he levels with my husband.

I have spoke to Social Sevices today who has said they'll get a support package and stated that this is Child-on-parent (and sibling) abuse and that they do need to safe guard our other children

Difficult to take you seriously when you say crass things like that.

PACE is built on attachment theory and neuroscientific insights into trauma about which there is a high degree of professional consensus.

Perhaps you don't understand PACE and the important of natural and logical consequences.

In your scenario the natural consequence of not wearing appropriate clothes would be getting cold. But another natural consequence could be that you explain that as warm clothes are needed on a cold day to stay well it won't be possible to leave the house or join in the activity until everyone has appropriate clothes. Therefore the natural consequence is that they get less time skiing.

Your example of being allowed to choose music might work as a reward for a while but it doesn't address the underlying issues. Teaching cause and effect allows children to learn WHY certain behaviour is important not just learning to comply to get a reward or to avoid punishment.

I can’t give any advice on how to deal with day to day life with your DS, but I have been where you are in terms of the family feeling unable to cope with DD1’s very different complex needs, although she did have a statement.

Decide what your first short term target is - presumably the JR. Take it one day at a time, rather than thinking about the whole process ahead of you.

In our case, we appealed to the SEN tribunal for an expensive 52 week residential placement. DD1’s social worker told us, it was way over her head. I took this to mean the head of SEN was pulling their strings - because her only priority was to save money. We won, after the LA’s rep had done nothing, but wind up the tribunal chair!

*In your scenario the natural consequence of not wearing appropriate clothes would be getting cold. But another natural consequence could be that you explain that as warm clothes are needed on a cold day to stay well it won't be possible to leave the house or join in the activity until everyone has appropriate clothes. Therefore the natural consequence is that they get less time skiing.

Your example of being allowed to choose music might work as a reward for a while but it doesn't address the underlying issues. Teaching cause and effect allows children to learn WHY certain behaviour is important not just learning to comply to get a reward or to avoid punishment.*

A natural consequence is one that leads from an action eg you don’t wear clothes = you get cold. Not having the same amount of time skiing is a consequence you as the parent have imposed to avoid the unpleasantness of the natural consequence. Much of the time we don’t leave our children to experience the natural consequences of their behaviour because the natural consequences would be too harmful or dangerous.

The reality is there are times when children do just need to comply, the “why it’s important” can come as the child has the cognitive ability to make links between behaviour and consequences. I’m a huge advocate of PACE, but it doesn’t work for every child in all circumstances.

It still doesn't have any evidence behind it.
Lots of ideas about treatments for this, that and the other are built on good theory but don't actually work.
If the proponents of PACE were interested in testing it properly they'd do a proper trial.
In fact the coaches for PACE aren't trained on child psychology outside their own area and just like when you are looking for your keys under the lamppost because the light is there, or you have a spanner so everything must be a nut, they are heavily biased towards every child a) having an attachment disorder and b) needing PACE.

Our paediatrician in contrast has seen and knows how to diagnose a huge range of developmental problems and he also says "keep calm and quiet and don't respond or pay attention".

😂

If the proponents of PACE were interested in testing it properly they'd do a proper trial.
Like all things related to human functioning, it’s neigh on impossible to do a proper trial - by which I mean a randomised controlled trial. People don’t work according to a manual and it would be impossible to control for quality of relationship, consistency of approach in a domestic home etc. Social sciences rely on both evidence based practice (what research tells us should work) and practice based evidence (what professionals have seen to be effective). The problem is that things then become a bit trendy and get applied as a blanket answer to everything. The focus on trauma informed practice is a good example of taking a theory base that has value and then boiling it down to the lowest common denominators and hoping it makes a difference.

The reason manualised therapies (CBT, DBT, EMDR) are considered evidence based is because they can be used in clinician controlled environments and delivered in a consistent way, sadly relational therapies which are least as effective can’t be “delivered” in that way and so rarely reach the heights of evidence base. It’s one of the limits of the NHS having such a sway on what is considered evidence.

The best we can hope for is very experienced practitioners who have seen a lot of trends come and go, and who can draw on a range of knowledge and skills to find the best fit. PACE has its place, but so do clear boundaries with parent delivered consequences, as does a “not feeding the behaviour” approach. Different things for different children in different circumstances. The problem with blindly following the trend is that parents end up blamed when their child is struggling - because if they just followed X trend, all would be fine.

I’ve seen many parenting trends and strategies punted over the years, with better or worse effect. The reality is when parents feel supported, have enough money to not worry day to day, and have decent respite from the demands of parenting children with challenging needs they are able to parent more effectively with more consistency.

Just sending love. And a recommendation of neurofeedback therapy. Our son was hugely aggressive up to the age of 9 and traumatising us all (secondary trauma I suppose.) This was a game changer for us and he has zero outbursts now. I so feel your pain. Article here:

braintrainuk.com/neurofeedback-for/neurofeedback-for-anger/

Don't you have to invoke / sign a section 20?

I run that said you can't look after your child and they need to go into foster care.

In reality there aren't foster carers available in many places for children with high needs.

It's a high risk strategy but can result in actually getting support or funding.

@Crumplesock

Do you think that you will be able to go to the Open Afternoon at Gretton School tomorrow, OP?

I'd like to think that the staff there would understand your predicament and help you, even in some small way.

https://www.grettonschool.com/open-afternoon-information

You have the right to say you need foster care yes , no one can stop you requesting it but Social Work will then advise that it is not available or not appropriate - foster care or any out of the home placement is the end of a very very long process, it is not the start point . I am not saying no one can do it - I did get an out of home placement after 4 years of fighting but I am saying be realistic about the time frame and the process involved.

Social Work Support offered at least in the first instance will be suggestions of charities or local clubs that are claimed to be good with kids with difficulties or maybe a referral to a parenting course, they won't rush in with a foster placement

Social Work Support offered at least in the first instance will be suggestions of charities or local clubs that are claimed to be good with kids with difficulties or maybe a referral to a parenting course, they won't rush in with a foster placement

@willowthecat - they didn’t with us. They gave us a nurse from 7 pm until 7 am for a week. They couldn’t have given us a parenting course, as we knew more about DD than anyone in the County! They also agreed to provide respite for all of the school holidays.

Email from social care today stating "there is no role here for social care. No further communication will be responded to by social care"

Get the EHCP and tell SS you want to sign him over to them via an S20, as you have serious safeguarding concerns about your other children and it is not safe to keep him in your home. Do not be dissuaded; he will be placed in a one-to-one foster placement (FC get additional money, DS gets one-to-one attention, no other children in the home). The FC will either be able to get him to engage in education, or he will get home-schooled (unlikely) or will be placed in a PRU if he attends a residential school. Make it an SS issue. Funding privately for such schools is out of your league. (sorry) and completely unnecessary. SS are pushing back because they do not want the expense if the parents are willing to support their DC. Parents of CIN children cannot be told there is no role for social care. Stop enabling him and making the lines blurred; demand help. Insist on S20, if you have a child who is dangerous and a safeguarding issue for his siblings. Child in Need children needs a resolution; SS are pushing you down to Early Help, It is their cheapest option on a stretched social care budget. Stand very firm, drop him at their offices at 9am with an overnight bag if needed, and tell them you are leaving because his is too dangerous to have in the home. Then they will listen

So sorry OP. Any idea what the long term likely scenario is? Could he live independently or will he require residential care? I am guessing SS will take a wait and see approach until it is too late to help.

Complain about the social care assessment and the outcome. If that doesn’t work, you can request an independent review. And then you can also complain to the LGO. Depending on specifics, JR may be possible.

If/when you appeal to SENDIST, you could look at an independent social worker assessment for your appeal.

Every child is different though. We've not restricted screens and kept things low demand. DS is now back in school full time, and coping really well.

NGL S20 is tempting, idk what else to do. We aren't coping

But this isn't working for the OP. The parents I know for whom this is "working" are either using "sitting in their room but calm" as the definition of working, or have very academic children who are generally calm and can't bear to be away from a source of intellectual stimulation, but had a breakdown temporarily so they are now either highly self-motivated learners with friends they see regularly, or are back in school. And if "demands" are the enemy, and no demand should be placed, then "being in school full time" if it isn't a demand, I don't know what is.

Some children may be able to increase their exposure to things that make them anxious by themselves, but most cannot. Most aren't that self-motivated and will avoid, avoid, avoid - my DS is like this and so it seems is the OP's DS. More avoidance = more anxiety = more things make them anxious = more fight or flight.

We have tried traditional parenting, that was when things were at its absolute worse. Things have improved since we changed from that approach but we are now stuck but the continuation of this endless direction situation is making it feel impossible to get through.

We keep things low demand at home so he can cope with the demands in school. DS uses screens to regulate atm - I don't think this is ideal, but his current special interests are specific video games. When he has non screen based special interests his screen time is less. My main concern is to keep him in school - as he is in a specialist ASD base, they can provide help and support for his other issues. He also responds better to rewards in school - they don't work at home and are counterproductive.

None of this happened overnight, it's taken a lot of work, effort and stress on our part to get DS to this point - and we used to have daily, multiple meltdowns and violence, the difference for us is DS is our only child so we only have to keep him and ourselves safe and don't have to worry about other children.

The OP says the alternatives they've tried have had worse outcomes. Clearly, external help is needed, but as I'm sure we all know, it's rarely available. Three trips to A&E for me, multiple calls to 111 for injuries and neighbours phoning the police weren't enough for anybody to do anything.

I don't understand this response? Surely they know he's violent and that you're all being injured on a regular basis including two younger minors. How can they justify that response? Is it because they didn't see it first hand?

I'm sorry OP. This is a nightmare situation for you

I've no idea tbh, they don't want to see our recordings of the violence and distres, they won't believe the private assessments we have commissioned, they won't listen to A&E staff or Paeds team either.

Not actually sure what Social Care is there for

Usually there are two branches of child social services. Child protection and disability team. Perhaps you need to ask to move teams as they have totally different services and support available usually.

I do think though that you'd be better off pushing for Psychiatrist support not social care support.