To voluntarily put my child into care

[Crumplesock]

We are at the point now where we think we may need to either put our eldest into the care system or seperate and live in 2 seperate homes to keep our children apart for fear that the eldest will seriously harm the younger two children. However, I'm not sure how we will actually finance two seperate homes (even 2 x 1bedroom flats).

Our son is autistic with a PDA profile. We are low demand parenting, and he does not attend school after being excluded and we are following his lead in Home Education. We followed the At Peace Parenting Course (which is amazing and so insightful, if not a little crazy on price!) but she told us we need to radically accept that this is our son's disability, this is part of it and we need to accommodate it. She shared how her family had to live sperately for a while. We are being advised by all the professionals that we are doing all we can for our son's needs and are accommodating and parenting him in line with his disabilities. But I just feel so broken at it.

As our son is getting bigger, his level of aggression is increasing and becoming harder to manage. We attempt to keep the children separated at all times but this is hard when there is only 1 parent at home and all 3 do need to be watched constantly.

Our other two children, and us parents too, are receiving multiple injuries daily.

Our son has taken to doing home workouts, which is absolutely brilliant and I want to encourage a healthy lifestyle but his strength is crazy. I've witnessed him do 20+ pull ups, he can now lift 1.5× his bodyweight in a Deadlift. I spoke to him about this passion of his and he said its so he can always make sure he is the strongest and to make people scared of him.

I know deep down there's a scared boy in there, whose doing this as a reaction to school trauma and being pushed around by school bullies (he had it quite bad). But it also terrifies me at how he is stronger than me and it won't be long before he levels with my husband.

I have spoke to Social Sevices today who has said they'll get a support package and stated that this is Child-on-parent (and sibling) abuse and that they do need to safe guard our other children

Yeah this is what we are paying for him to do already at a Therapy Farm, we can only afford a 2hrs a week programme at the moment as it costs £850 a month but hoping if we do get a EHCP then we can name the farm as its listed on the LA'S website as suitable alternative provision for EOTAS

Ah sorry I did read all your posts a few days back but didn't refresh myself before posting

That's okay.

I suppose it goes back to making the point that others have done already on here... his DLA is already used on private therapy etc, not really anything left over for this legal battle that's likely to happen

I am wondering about taking the LA to Judicial Review myself. It's not too dissimilar to what I do for work.

@Crumplesock

He would like Michael Morpurgo's farms, OP - I think he would have to be part of an eligible group, though.

https://farmsforcitychildren.org/farm-visits/school-visits-and-group-visits/

https://farmsforcitychildren.org/about-us/#welcome

There is a residential school in my region - NW - that has animals - Pontville. DS school also has animals but is a day school.
We looked at Pontville but have had a much calmer home life recently and also school is improving marginally so less of a need to change schools.

There are lots of APs that involve animals/farms.

For JR proceedings themselves, you don’t need to do it yourself. Proceedings themselves are brought in the child’s name and DS can be eligible for legal aid in his own right. This wouldn’t cover the pre-action letter, that would be in your name, so you would only get legal aid if you are eligible, but SOSSEN can help with a pre-action letter free-of-charge. I would be wary of doing it yourself unless you know exactly what you are doing.

We have SLT, OT, psych therapy and physio in the EHCP section F. If it educates and trains, it's a form of education and must be funded. We also get 3 hours a week of respite in the Social Care side which ties in with an EOTAS to give me a full day off a week.

You need to get the private clinicians to write reports on what you have had them do to date. I am afraid you also would be wise to secure private medico legal reports, so you can appeal. OT, SLT, EP and ideally a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist, and possibly an independent social worker. It all costs a horrible amount, but it works. Make sure they are medico legal - that's a separate skill, too. You can get a really good package if the needs are genuinely there. A direct access barrister is also a lot cheaper, across the year of an appeal, than a solicitor who works on a ticking meter. Do NOT use an advocate - they are unqualified and I have heard more horror stories than I care to remember. We use Alice de Coverley and she is both a phenomenal lawyer and a bit of an angel. Your son, and your whole family, deserve so much better than you are getting and the law is on your side in securing it, too.

This is really hard, and also I do feel bad around how much it costs the state - but it costs the state much, much less if our kids are employable, and not in prisons or mental hospitals or on benefits for life, too. Every pound spend on SEND provision ends up saving the tax payer three. Cutting SEND to the bone is the ultimate in short termism.

Your son needs and deserves help, and so do you and his little siblings.

No. They are highly technical and if you get it wrong, in theory the LA can go after you for their own costs. Legal Aid means you are not liable for anything if you lose. That imbalance is why the LAs do actually fear JR - they know the risk is all, and only, their own after the PAP letter is paid for.

SOS!SEN do them free right now. https://sossen.org.uk/applying-for-a-pre-action-protocol-letter/

The legal battle is very expensive, yes. But once won, you don't have to fund therapies etc. The EHCP does that.

I am happy to write your appeal grounds for you, or just share redacted versions of ours so you can cannibalise them. I'm not a lawyer or an advocate, just a mum, but's not hard to start an appeal - they can, and usually do, morph as they go on so really as long as you lodge one properly in technical terms, you can't get it too wrong. And I have the massive plus of being zero pence, as I am not a professional, just someone who has appealed several times across the years. If a child is not attending (on roll, or not) then you can also use the SEND 7 process to seek an earlier hearing. Then you can focus money on good private reports, and a really good barrister to do the actual appeal hearing plus write up the Position Statement (your final full case, with all the evidence you have garnered) for the final evidence deadline.

The appeal system is the way to secure adequate provision. With needs as high as your son's, unfortunately there is no other road to achieving that.

Oh @perfectstorm, you should not feel guilty about the cost of DC’s provision.

It would cost the state considerably more long term if they did not have their provision. It would also cost the state many multiples of the current cost if you reached carer burnout. And the LA has saved the state a fortune during those periods where DC have been without the necessary provision and you have been providing and funding care the LA should have been providing.

@BrightYellowTrain has I think linked to Parents In Need, who help fund reports for families in really tough plights.

(Hello BYT! I recognise your posts now, whatever the username - always make me smile!)

Yeah, a few people have pointed out that if I insisted on the LA delivering his EOTAS the costs would treble at a stroke - at least.

And yes, there have been plural years they have denied provision!

We have also made phenomenal sacrifices to achieve what we have. I just am so aware of the parents I help who really can't access even borrowing to secure what my two have. Like you, I do all I can to help as many as I can, but until the wider public start to 1) care more, and 2) realise the cost to society of failing to educate and support disabled kids when still kids, I don't think much will change.

Surely it costs the State an incredible amount when they're having to go through this legal stuff?

Thank you, I won't do it myself, I shall look into the details shared properly tomorrow. I have reached out to someone already but be good to go out to multiple places for advice.

Things did get bad today, had to call the police as DS punched me in the face and ran into the road in attempts to kill himself. I couldn't safely contain him. Was horrible.

Police officer was amazing and she put in an urgent referral to CAMHS (I didn't know they could do this?). Anyway, CAMHS phoned us half hour later and will be seeing DS Friday!

It's been a horrible night. I hope you get support that actually moves stuff on.

You are not remotely alone. This is more common than those outside the SEN community can begin to imagine. I think one big plus of lockdown was SEN parents went online more and realised how huge a community we actually are. Lean on fellow SEN parents - they are an incredible support and resource.

Always here if you want a vent, or a signpost, or just a hand-hold. I know @BrightYellowTrain will be happy to offer advice, too.

Sorry you had a difficult (understatement!) day. I am pleased to hear the police were supportive and understanding.

Surely it costs the State an incredible amount when they're having to go through this legal stuff?

It does. The general public would be aghast if they knew the money wasted on Tribunals and defending indefensible cases against, often unrepresented, parents.

I have had 3 appeals (one of which is still ongoing) for my own DC within the last 18 months. My LA has spent an inordinate amount of money on barristers (yes, more than one). Including one last year to turn up late on the day of DS1’s final hearing to then concede. Infuriating!

until the wider public start to 1) care more, and 2) realise the cost to society of failing to educate and support disabled kids when still kids, I don't think much will change.

This hits the nail on the head. A significant portion of the population doesn't care, doesn't understand, and doesn't wish to understand.

Well said @Perfectstorm. OP, it might be worth bracing for the CAMHS appointment being a triage session, with a further wait beyond. Nonetheless, that moves you closer to skilled support. And sometimes, just knowing a service is 'holding' some of the risk, can be a relief. Do ask about safety planning. Sometimes, even if you are waiting for an intervention, once you are on a waiting list you can get some advice hoc phone support in a crisis.

Sorry that should have read ad hoc phone support.

In terms of how much the state spends on fighting parents legally - you can only "win" a Tribunal when, as in your case, the state is behaving completely unlawfully. All a Tribunal do is put themselves in the shoes of the LA, and make the decision in accordance with the law. So you don't actually win; you limit the unlawful mistreatment of the child. And 98.3% of such cases are decided in favour of the parents - or, more accurately, the child.

The LAs spent one hundred million pounds fighting those parents and children - in one single year.

That £100,000,000 is all taken from the High Needs budget allocated to SEN. This means that tax money meant to support disabled children was, instead, spent on defending Local Authorities deliberately and intentionally breaking the law, and refusing to adequately meet their needs. So many kids spend years at home, with nothing. So many. And that's by LA design. Nothing is cheaper than nothing.

In my case, I've had three solicitors, a paralegal, two caseworkers and a top SEND barrister used against me before, all within 12 months, across two cases. For cases I was guaranteed to win from the start, because the LA were ignoring the law.

Tax payers paid for that. For doing that to my family. All this abuse of disabled children is funded by the tax money that is meant to be supporting them. By everyone reading this.

hoping if we do get a EHCP then we can name the farm as its listed on the LA'S website as suitable alternative provision for EOTAS

Coming back to this, OP.

With EOTAS/EOTIS, the farm provision wouldn’t be named in section I of the EHCP like a school would be. Only registered schools can be named in section I and then it wouldn’t be EOTAS.

With EOTAS/EOTIS, Section I would be blank. The type of provision needed would be set out in section F, but the provider itself should not be named in section F. It may be named in Section J if it is funded via a personal budget.

Despite what some LAs tell parents, provision that is part of EOTAS packages does not have to be on the LA’s approved alternative provision list or, if they have one, included in their AP catalogue.

OP ignore this, it’s completely inaccurate 🙄

@EvangelicalAboutButteredToast what a load is shite. Complete nonsense. Ignore this person OP.

Tbf there ARE issues in doing this. It can cause huge problems for people in certain professions like teaching for example. I know a woman who was a head teacher and an adopter. When one of her children went back into care, basically due to domestic violence against siblings, she was suspended from work and investigated.

Basically anyone considering a Section 20 and putting a child into care should take advice first about the wider implications.

People can also be charged for the child's keep too.

Yes there was a horrendous adoptive mother who put her oldest child into care when she was a teen, and she happened to be a teacher. There were repercussions as a result.

I can’t remember if she was suspended or they just had to speak with her at work but I recall she wasn’t happy and gave us (children’s services) a lot of abuse for it.

There may well be potential implications if you then later apply to become an adopter (understandably so) but in the OP’s situation there are no concerns like this and she shouldn’t allow that to affect her decision. Why would employers even know about it? It would be private information- it’s not like a criminal conviction and wouldn’t even involve a court making any adverse findings of fact against her - it would be on the basis that the child is beyond parental control.

The adoption part is irrelevant - I only mentioned it to explain her circumstances. I suspect that it was in her contract that she had to report any dealings with social services. And if the OP or her husband works in a field like teaching, it will have the same repercussions.

Yeah I wasn’t referring to implications around the woman in my story adopting again. (Thankfully that was out of the question)

I was specifically referring to the repercussions she faced at her place of work which was a school.