To voluntarily put my child into care

[Crumplesock]

We are at the point now where we think we may need to either put our eldest into the care system or seperate and live in 2 seperate homes to keep our children apart for fear that the eldest will seriously harm the younger two children. However, I'm not sure how we will actually finance two seperate homes (even 2 x 1bedroom flats).

Our son is autistic with a PDA profile. We are low demand parenting, and he does not attend school after being excluded and we are following his lead in Home Education. We followed the At Peace Parenting Course (which is amazing and so insightful, if not a little crazy on price!) but she told us we need to radically accept that this is our son's disability, this is part of it and we need to accommodate it. She shared how her family had to live sperately for a while. We are being advised by all the professionals that we are doing all we can for our son's needs and are accommodating and parenting him in line with his disabilities. But I just feel so broken at it.

As our son is getting bigger, his level of aggression is increasing and becoming harder to manage. We attempt to keep the children separated at all times but this is hard when there is only 1 parent at home and all 3 do need to be watched constantly.

Our other two children, and us parents too, are receiving multiple injuries daily.

Our son has taken to doing home workouts, which is absolutely brilliant and I want to encourage a healthy lifestyle but his strength is crazy. I've witnessed him do 20+ pull ups, he can now lift 1.5× his bodyweight in a Deadlift. I spoke to him about this passion of his and he said its so he can always make sure he is the strongest and to make people scared of him.

I know deep down there's a scared boy in there, whose doing this as a reaction to school trauma and being pushed around by school bullies (he had it quite bad). But it also terrifies me at how he is stronger than me and it won't be long before he levels with my husband.

I have spoke to Social Sevices today who has said they'll get a support package and stated that this is Child-on-parent (and sibling) abuse and that they do need to safe guard our other children

What a sad situation. But you have to protect the younger ones. His strength and desire to dominate are frightening.

Omg, put him into care and reclaim your life and your other children's lives! He's hurting them! The care option for him is a no-brainer.

If you don't get him out of the home, your other children might be very resentful of you both when they're adults. You don't want to lose them too.

I think you need to look at this with a longer lens. You need to be thinking about how he can be supported when what happens when you and DH are too old/infirm/dead. Sorry if that is blunt, but it needs to be considered.
Back when I was working, one of my regular patients was a man in his 40s who had been living at home until his parents just got too old to manage. He had been moved into a sheltered, shared house where the two (male) staff lived in. He was settled and happy there and was actually much calmer than when he had been living at home.
I have friends who are in a similar situation to you and they managed for 15 years and it was hard on the other DC, the difference being that the other DC were older. Now they are in their 60s, they are looking at sheltered living for their now 20+ child and wishing they had done it earlier.

its possible that an environment which would better meet his needs would make him feel more secure than staying with you?

8 is very very young. I really thought you were going to say he was 16. It feels like the way you talk about him is quite adult. That's not meant as a criticism but I wonder if you see him as older and more responsible for certain actions than he is at this age? What happened with the bullying at school? How long did it go on for?

It's not really safe for 8 year olds to be lifting weights without proper supervision from a v experienced coach. Only child-adapted strength and conditioning training, usually as part of another performance sports programme, and led by experienced coaches, is suitable for children before puberty.

There isn't a 'young scared boy deep down inside him'. He IS a young scared boy. He's 8.

It feels like he may have been through more trauma than you are aware of and counselling or psychological intervention for him would be incredibly helpful. He's so so little to be going through all this.

I really feel for your son and for you and especially your other two children. 💐

My friend faced this scenario as well when her son was 9-10, the eldest of 3. They were contemplating 2 households or residential. She told me adjusting his medication made a world of difference. He is now 21 and employed.

He’s the one injuring the others. It’s not fair. It’s not punishment but he needs to be removed from the situation and live somewhere where he can’t do this anymore.
Maybe speak to some people who grew up with violent siblings, whether or not those siblings had SN.

If social services are thinking about a care placement I’d seriously consider it because they don’t offer that easily. Being in care doesn’t mean you’d have no role in his life, or indeed that you’d stop being his parents. There would be agreed ongoing contact with his family and it may be easier to maintain good relationships with him when you and your children don’t feel constantly scared of him.

That does very much depend on the type of placement and the expertise of the carers, he would need a specialist therapeutic placement which can be hard to find. It also doesn’t need to be a permanent change, as he grows and matures he may be able to safely return home.

No advice but this sounds dreadful OP and I'd be really concerned about the (physical and mental) health impact on the rest of you if DS continues to live with you all. Really concerned... And if you get sick or one of the children does then you'll have even less resource for everyone.
So sorry you are going through this. It isn't your fault.

You would be best to plan for respite - there is no option now to put children in care as happens in books and films. Getting a residential placement for a child is very difficult no matter how serious the issues, partly because of current policies, partly because of cost, and partly because there are so few residential places available . We eventually got long term respite in place when ds1 was 16 and that was because the special school excluded him. A residential school might be possible but a very expensive option for your LA and you need to know if they would be likely to pay for it. I do know many parents who have separated and give each other informal respite by sharing the care between the households.

im not going to read the replies, but wanted to say I get it. I made the heartbreaking decision to have my daughter live with my ex. I couldn’t meet both children’s need on my own, my youngest was and is traumatised - he’s thriving without her here, but as a mum making that choice is horrendous, I felt I had no choice, I’d hoped it would be for a short time but two years later she’s still with dad, hates me for choosing her brother and making her leave - she’s 13 now and so so angry.
i know I did the right thing for my son, he’s come such a long way , at 8 he wouldnt leave my side, he’s still young for his age and he’s still anxious and separation can effect him but he’s doing ok.
i knew my daughter wouldn’t have all her needs met by her dad so I get why she’s angry, I try and explain it was only a choice because her behaviour was the issue and I had to keep her brother safe (I leave my safety out of it), but she holds so much resentment.
as for me, it’s so hard, I miss my daughter so much, I know I’ve let her down, that had I chosen to keep her at home she’d be in a better place but my son would have been in an awful place. Choosing one child over another is horrendous, and the pain doesn’t go away - even when rationally you know you had no choice.
probably not helping - but just wanted to say, it’s hard, whatever you choose, but not protecting the littler ones is also a choice and the effet on them are huge. You’re not alone.
i spent years awake at night wondering and scared that next time I wouldn’t be quick enough and something really bad would happen - that’s the plus I know we’re safe at home now no one is going to get badly hurt. You’ll get stronger and your mental health will be better when that fear isn’t there every moment.

DH’s cousin runs a small residential home for boys with needs like this. They live with the family in the home (it’s a huge house - 16 bedrooms), with 24 hour support workers in-house. It’s a home from home. It doesn’t have to be institutional, OP.

Probably not many I also think they think.ts a simple process it isn't.

I thought my son would never attend school again. It took me 2 years to find somewhere - an independent college fairly locally. There will be somewhere that will accept your son.

His EHCP paid for it.

I also know of weekly boarding and full time residential places, again covered by EHCPs. If there is choice here (in the middle of nowhere!) there will be somewhere local to you.

If he’s like this at 8 it will get worse and worse and worse.

Not necessarily. He will currently be emotionally around age four or five and as he matures he may be able to manage himself better.

OP there is another option to care - residential school. This can be on a 52 week placement (so year round). And he could still come to visit in that time. Residential also means you can look at bit further afield than the day-place schools you are looking at now. Do make sure you find one that understands PDA though.

No, hold up. I have had two kids with special needs who experienced school based trauma, and while they exhibited extremely challenging behaviour which upended my life and career, they didn't really hurt others. They both have to a very large part recovered, although I think a part of their self esteem will always bear a dent from what happened to them. They both needed their mum. They both needed to very slowly unravel from all the pressure and anxiety and self doubt and self hatred. I don't think that's possible, to be frank, if your parents send you away. There will be no way back from that for this hurt, bewildered, lost child. He might be lashing out but you can still get him back. I know you can because I've seen kids recover themselves twice.

Additional needs or not, it won't matter to the damage it will cause the siblings who are being battered and possibly verbally abused for their entire childhoods. I suffer with anxiety, depression and PTSD that have impacted my life to such a point that I am currently unable to work. I have very little confidence and I went on to have several abusive relationships because violence was my normal and I felt that was all I deserved. I was also left feeling I was unloved and unlovable, because if I was so loved and cared for then why was I allowed to be beaten on a daily basis? Yes it is awful that this child has additional needs and perhaps cannot help the way he behaves but additional needs don't trump the safety and well being of other people in the household.

Edited to add that yes, I actually do have a child with additional needs. My DS (14) has autism.

He is only 8, he is so young and I want him to feel loved and secure. Surely putting him into care or residential boarding won't make him feel loved at all.

That very much depends on how the move is explained to him, the efforts you all make to maintain a loving relationship with him and the type of placement and its ability to meet his needs. I’d want to know what any placement can offer and why they think they are equipped to meet his needs - and I’d want assurances they are committed to him long term if need be. The worst thing would be a poorly planned placement and for him to face repeated moves because the placement isn’t in fact suitable for him.

Hello @Crumplesock I'm sorry to know you’re in this situation.

I am also a mum of a autistic child who has violent behaviour, thankfully no PDA profile.
But I’m leaving this reply to you as someone who worked for many years with children (briefly) but mainly with the teens and men your son has similar issues as.

A residential setting is crucial to keep your other children safe.
Im unsure of your DS capabilities or if independent living would ever be possible anyway, but if you, and as his mother you will in your heart know, that your son in a meltdown or act of frustration or rage may hurt your other children in a way beyond ordinary sibling roughhousing, then residential care is the way forward.

There is huge fear regarding children’s homes with abuse etc and I get it, I really do understand that fear. But you wouldn’t be an absent parent, you’d visit lots, be involved, you’d want to see daily reports, chat to DS over video call.
You can ask to know what physical intervention techniques would be used during his violent spells, you can ask a million questions, build key worker rapports and if you for any reason or DS doesn’t gel with his support staff, request changes.
If at any time you’re unhappy, then he can come home.

The routine of a care home may suit him, planned activities, mealtimes, the regiment may help ease his anxiety.

You can only try, fwiw DP and I (he currently manages a unit for young people with MH/LD/ND) are both trained to work with people like your DS and if our ASD DS became uncontrollable with his violence towards his siblings and put their safety at risk, we’d also have to look at alternatives. One child can’t risk the others safety and mental wellness as hard as that is to hear x

I'm so sorry Op, your life must be so hard. I know your eldest is only 8 but you can't let your other DC grow up in fear of their DB, I know it's not his fault but it's not theirs either.
Unless you can keep them apart all the time they could end up seriously injured. I'd take all the help the SS can give you. I hope it works out for you

Yes precisely. I’m afraid that the little 4 year old boy whose heart hurts with how scared he is at home and who had to walk round a supermarket all evening with his mum has to come first here. It’s not the 8 year olds fault he is like this - nobody asks to be born with ASD. However the fact is he is violent and a danger to his parents and his siblings. It may sound harsh but he needs to be looked after elsewhere or those poor little kids will be badly injured or even worse and are likely to grow up traumatised to the core.

I really hope that your son can be found a residential educational placement, OP. Because your 4 and 1 year olds are not just being emotionally abused, they are physically unsafe.

I taught children somewhat like your 8 year old for some years, so I'm not denying or overlooking his needs and emotions, but fundamentally you have to keep the other two safe. And if you get injured you might not be able to care for them yourself.

The worst injuries I ever got at work, were from a 6 year old. I imagine there are few on this board who would ever understand how much damage a six year old can do to a grown adult. He also put one of my TAs in hospital. I actually loved that kid. When he wasn't violent he could be so lovely. But if he'd had younger siblings I'd have been worried sick for them, and advised his mum in the same way as I am you.

Parent to a PDAer here. At 6 or 7 I wondered if a residential placement was in my son’s future due to his violence towards me. He has no siblings. The violence has reduced to practically nothing now.

As I’m sure you are aware you are probably not able to minimise demands enough as you have to keep the younger siblings safe. In this respect being in a different setting where they can do that could be just what he needs, but 8 is very young to be living away from a loving parent. You have an impossible situation and an impossible decision and you are never going to know what the best option will be because you don’t have a crystal ball, so don’t beat yourself up about getting it wrong afterwards.

I too wonder about a residential school rather than putting him into care. Some offer longer placements so it is not just term time. Or perhaps you could do a split household during holidays but have him in residential school during term time.

OP at age 8 how is he getting access to weight lifting equipment? You need to remove that from your home and not take him to anywhere like a gym where he can use weight lifting equipment. If you have a pull up bar in your home, remove it.
Thats something you can change straight away dont allow him to actively get stronger and more capable of hurting you and his other family members. He's 8, not 15 and shouldn't be anywhere near gym equipment.

Has the zero demand approach made any difference to his ability to regulate, op? How long has it been?

I really did assume you were talking about a 16 year old from your post, but we’re talking about a very young child here.

My concern would be whether a residential placement will be able to provide a low demand environment or will he be exposed to further trauma with ABA type approaches? Are you able to isolate him in one room of the house? Or is there family you could take your other two dc to stay with while you take turns at managing your oldest?

And remove the weights. I know that doesn’t necessarily tally with low demand parenting but he really should never have had access to them in the first place. Like removing knives, there’s a safety issue here.