To voluntarily put my child into care

[Crumplesock]

We are at the point now where we think we may need to either put our eldest into the care system or seperate and live in 2 seperate homes to keep our children apart for fear that the eldest will seriously harm the younger two children. However, I'm not sure how we will actually finance two seperate homes (even 2 x 1bedroom flats).

Our son is autistic with a PDA profile. We are low demand parenting, and he does not attend school after being excluded and we are following his lead in Home Education. We followed the At Peace Parenting Course (which is amazing and so insightful, if not a little crazy on price!) but she told us we need to radically accept that this is our son's disability, this is part of it and we need to accommodate it. She shared how her family had to live sperately for a while. We are being advised by all the professionals that we are doing all we can for our son's needs and are accommodating and parenting him in line with his disabilities. But I just feel so broken at it.

As our son is getting bigger, his level of aggression is increasing and becoming harder to manage. We attempt to keep the children separated at all times but this is hard when there is only 1 parent at home and all 3 do need to be watched constantly.

Our other two children, and us parents too, are receiving multiple injuries daily.

Our son has taken to doing home workouts, which is absolutely brilliant and I want to encourage a healthy lifestyle but his strength is crazy. I've witnessed him do 20+ pull ups, he can now lift 1.5× his bodyweight in a Deadlift. I spoke to him about this passion of his and he said its so he can always make sure he is the strongest and to make people scared of him.

I know deep down there's a scared boy in there, whose doing this as a reaction to school trauma and being pushed around by school bullies (he had it quite bad). But it also terrifies me at how he is stronger than me and it won't be long before he levels with my husband.

I have spoke to Social Sevices today who has said they'll get a support package and stated that this is Child-on-parent (and sibling) abuse and that they do need to safe guard our other children

Long term foster carer here. I cannot tell you how many families are destroyed struggling to cope with severe special needs children. How many mums attempting suicide because they cannot stand the guilt of being unable to carry on. How many fathers up and leave
How many siblings sacrificed on the altar of keeping another at home however bad, dangerous, soul destroying it is. The reality is that care systems have staff
They do not do 24 hours a day seven days a week shifts
And family can visit and spend quality time with their child without sobbing hopelessly and shaking with stress. Of course some placements are better than others but the ones near me were happy balanced places who not only contained but nourished and taught .
And before some sanctimonious arse gives us the ' I could never put my child in care " speech then let me say
You have no idea what you are talking about. You have no idea what some people's lives are like. So unless you want to sign up for respite care don't you bloody dare judge loving guilt ridden desperate parents who have no good choices
Only worse and worst choices. Op I advise you to seriously consider this and do some research on what is available in your area to support your family. I hope you find an answer that allows you to parent all your children and get some quality of life

There comes a point where social services would look to split the family up if the parents cannot keep the younger children safe. From OP comment about safeguarding younger children, it does sound like social services may be approaching that point. The first step would likely be looking to see if either the older, or the two younger children, could stay with a family member. Though if it reaches that point you would have a strong argument for a residential school setting.

My heart breaks for you all, op. I have some understanding of what you're going through, and agree that you must look at the needs of the family as a whole, and each member within it individually. Whether that is care via the foster route (it would I think need to be a fosterer without other children) or respite care (not easy to access) I don't know. But your situation sounds horrendous and I hope that whatever you do it works out for you. Yanbu to be considering this.

Can I ask who diagnosed the PDA profile?

And YOU need to be safe too.

@Crumplesock please ask for this to be moved to SEN. I feel so sorry for you ,your son and your family that you have to post this sort of question and ultimately none of us can say. l do however remember some posts by a lady with 2 adult autistic sons living at home ,about the physical assaults she experienced from her oldest son. I couldn’t ever expect a woman to go through life experiencing that daily reality from an adult male and that applies more so to that man’s siblings.

Don’t be sorry.

It’s unrealistic of you to believe that it has not impacted your younger child in any way.

My heart breaks for you all. This sounds so, so hard.

Does this include residential schools? There are residential schools/units for autistic children that are completely brilliant and which are worth looking into. It needn’t be all or nothing. For example, there can be an option to go to residential school during the week and to come home on the weekends. It’s great that social services are involved and hopefully your social worker can help you look into places that might not just suit but might help him thrive.

You are not a bad mum, you are a mum facing a monumentally challenging set of circumstances and it sounds like you are taking the steps necessary to protect your other children.

I almost did this. My son is also PDA. I begged and begged SS for help and they wouldn't help. Eventually I put a formal complaint in referencing all the emails I had set outlining how my other children were not safe. I set out which laws SS were breaking and which ones I was breaking by allowing my other children to be abused by a sibling. SS then assigned us a disability SW who was lovely but still no help. Then we had an incident where my son's meltdown almost had my dd thrown into oncoming traffic and I pulled her back by her hair, I had to manhandle my son home and my dd who was traumatised had me shouting at her to just walk come on we have to get home. Got home dd locked herself in her room and I spent hours calming son down before I was able to go to dd. At this point I emailed SS again referencing all my emails and said if they don't help me I will hurt my son and said I had to fight the impulse to throw my son into oncoming traffic to protect my dd. I have 3 kids and can't keep any of them safe so rather than fail them all I will have to become violent to my son to protect my other two. At this point I was promised full time carer if I would keep him. I accepted this but in the end it's only 10 hours of carer and still no school place etc etc. Also took them fucking monts to set it up then months of multiple carer which couldn't handle it. Now we have a good carer and are just about coping. My son also knows that I will do anything to help him but if he hurts his siblings i will send him into care. That hanging over him has him run off and hide/self harm when he's melting down. Far far from ideal but I have no other option. But my son is not a teen yet and I'm fucking terrified of puberty. I will absolutely put him into care if he ramps the violence up as a teen and is stronger than me. When you can't meet the needs of all the kids you have to make the terrible decision to meet the needs of most of them. Already my dd is so traumatised she has anxiety and bad dreams, she says she will never have kids as ASD is genetic. She says she will never get married as she's watched me be abandoned to cope and ds dad refuse to have him while he moves on and starts a new family. She hasn't had a childhood, she's been expected to protect her baby brother from the age of 6 while listening to her other brother trashing the house and attacking me. It's just horrible and I will never get over the guilt I feel being powerless to protect her from this and the guilt I feel needing to rely on her to protect her baby. I would never have had the baby- but stupid me thought SEN kids go to school. I waited till he started school to have my youngest and then he was kicked out 6 weeks later and steadily got worse and worse.

So don't just threaten to put him into care demand it. And discuss with your family too because first thing ss do is ring around and ask family to take him. My family and even ds dad all refused as his needs and behavior so extreme. It took multiple people refusing before SS accepted they had to do something. Pathetic 10 hours that it is

We talk about it. Of course it impacted her but she is close to her brother now and she knows it wasn't his fault.

He was traumatised at the time, it was a trauma response which was resolved with appropriate therapies and medication.

If it had continued we would have had to have separated them of course.

Gosh how awful for you all but it really doesn't sound like you have any choice. Living across 2 homes doesn't sound financially feasible or safe. He may really thrive in a different setting where you can all enjoy his company more on visits and move to the next stage of his life. If he was 18 he would be moving out, could you view it like this ? You can't do it all and your younger kids deserve a childhood

It's not a diagnosis of PDA with the ASD , @AutismProf , the physiatrist noted it down as "exhibits a PDA profile" and told us it's not something that can be formally diagnosed but can be noted.

Oh love. 💕🌷

I think this the sign that it's time to let him go into residential care where he can be engaged with, and appropriately restrained from hurting others. I'm so sorry you are all having to deal with this, but you have done your best for as long as you could.

I completely understand and I fear this is my future. My 4YO has suspected autism with PDA profile and he hurts us all daily, it’s a very scary situation to be living in. I understand about the strength, my son is already incredibly strong. My heart goes out to you it really does ❤️

I know two families whose children are now in residential school settings for reasons similar to OP, both a little older - one 13 and one 15. Both love their new homes, have settled very well, doing much more than their parents hoped for. The come home to visit for a few days at a time, which they all enjoy, but are also happy to go back to their new homes. The main thing is to be involved in the choice of new location as they do vary. Higher price does not mean better either.

15 years ago ,I could of wrote that ,the only difference being the son with PDA was middle child of very close age group .
The violence was horrendous,and I had to keep him with me at all times ,.
My mental health is / was shot to pieces .
We have had social services involved about 4/5 times ,we just kept being told we were doing a good job .I think if they had offered to take him ,I would of seriously considered it ..then it all settled down ,he went to a specialist school and we thought the worst was over ...with that thinking we had another baby .
Then suddenly everything went wrong at school ,he was expelled,and he was horrendous again ..so at that point we removed all demands from him ...this was after I asked him to eat his dinner in the kitchen,and he threw the plate of food across the room and over the babies head in the highchair,where it smashed in to the kitchen wall and shattered.
To an outsider,it looked like he was now getting his own way ,the reality was we had to put safety first ,and took up ,very very low demand parenting.at the risk of social services deciding to take the baby we had to change everything to suit him
If the baby was hurt by him ,they were not going to take away an angry 13 year old ,no they would take the baby .
I don't know how I held it together
We had camhs ,they were talking schizophrenia and sectioning him .by now we were very worried about his mental health,and it turned out later ,he had in fact had a mental breakdown,age 14 .
Life had got to much for him ..
We muddled through for a few years , literally just keeping the household calm,as best we could
.i say we ,but 80% of the time it was just me .
Things started to improve about 3 years after being expelled from school ,a tutor came and he managed to sit some GCSEs ,
and then age 20 with a lot of support and a taxi ,he managed 3 Alevels at college
,but on a one to one .college wouldn't let him near the other students..which social services agreed with ....it was only years later ..I thought ...fuck me ...he's not allowed near other students...yet I'm single handedly managing him at home with 3 siblings.
He's 26 now . Still lives at home ,we were told by social services he actually had learning difficulties...which ,no one had said to us before,..as well as the autism diagnosis..I guess that makes sense, looking back..
For me it was utter hell ,and I don't know how I got through it .
Mentally I'm fucked in the head,and actually got diagnosed with autism myself recently..so I honestly don't know how I coped ..I still don't leave him alone with my youngest child and the others have no relationship with him at all.
God knows what will happen to him when we die , because his siblings won't help him.
But it is easier..we all got through it ..
Whatever you decide op ,good luck xx

I have no advice but just wanted to send hugs. It's sounds like an incredibly difficult position to be in and I wish you the peace to come to the right decision for your family whatever that may be x

I’m glad you got it resolved and it wasn’t a long term issue.
Growing up living in fear is not something I’d want for anyone.

Nor me, I'm sorry that happened to you

People suggesting solutions that are not care would you at least agree that the one and four year old need to be removed from the home for their own safety and that they are currently suffering a level of harm that no child should have to suffer, ever? Being beaten daily.

Some of the stories are horrific. It totally destroys families. It’s better for a child like this to be in a structured residential setting where trained staff can deal with them. It doesn’t mean you lose your relationship with them but you need to be realistic. If you keep him at home you’re allowing your other children to be abused and to live in fear.

I am reading everything, just trying to process it all and am sharing the thread with my husband too so we can have a proper think about things.

I have no idea when any support will happen. Last time we asked for support, we were sent patronising leaflets (that included things like, make sure you feed your child 3 meals a day and read once a week) and then the next time we had someone come to our home once a week who said that we were parenting the best way possible for his needs and she couldn't recommend anything further as there was no risk to life.

However, things got drastically bad at school, the teachers would lock him in cupboards to contain his behaviour and he was suspended multiple times for escaping school and for attempting to poison his classmates by putting in glue into their water bottles etc. He was then excluded and we began home educating and seeking to help him recover from school based trauma.

His mental health began to recover and we saw a huge improvement with how he slept, ate and was able to leave the house. He started shining again.

He is an amazing boy, yes he does dominate the household and yes social services are classing it as abuse (child on parent and sibling abuse) but, he is also interesting to talk to and play with (following his rules ofc) and he has such a curiously about the world and nature. An amaizng sense of justice and protect animals. He is caring and loving. He is an amazing artist that writes beautiful songs and creates brilliant drawings.

Op read up on the law too. The SEN code of practice and disability law and the children act. SS threatened to take my non PDA kids to keep them safe when I demanded help for my PDA kid. I immidiately quoted the law at them and set out how this was not ok and I would fight them to the end. They dropped that tactic immediately and I think they only said that to get me to stop demanding help. But it's terrifying when they say that and could well happen. Always always put all your contact with SS in writing I think it was only the fact I had years of emails begging for help that protected my other kids- without that evidence they would have argued I can't keep my kids safe and removed the easy ones. I know of at least one woman this happened to through online support groups who I believe- I've heard similar stories from others but wonder if they ever saw the damage being done to their non disabled kid.

Always always in writing. And after every phone call followed up with an email recording what was said because they ignore the request for everything in writing all the time because they want o say stuff they can't say so say it verbally. I had constant rebuttals of my version of conversations from the child protection SWs. It's only the disability SW who doesn't do this in my experience.

That's another thing you will have to fight for a disability SW. one of the laws does have it in there you are entitled to one. There are not enough of them so hard to get but they are a very different breed to child protection and I've never heard a bad story about them like I have with child protection

@crumplesock do you post on the SN board? Posts in Special Needs topics don't show up in Active Convos, but the boards are full of people who have been in situations just like yours and who have hands on knowledge and understanding. About the condition, about the systems of support -and the difficulty in accessing them.

It is good that you are getting some useful posts here but also AIBU isn't necessarily the best place for experienced views.

How long has he been out of school op? I found the school trauma from just 6 weeks of being locked in cupboard and restrained etc took over 1.5 years to get past he nightmares and still to this day any mention of school is a massive trigger. If you are set to home educate forever make sure you son knows this because the fear he will get sent back if he stops violence will be counter productive. I do want my son in school but I e told him I will pull him out if they ever treat him that way again, he's seen me fight all the way to tribunal to get EOTAS so the LA find his home education so he trusts me. And it was a helpful teaching point as I was able to say how he felt then is how his siblings feel when they have to hide it he hurts them and I will protect them as passionately as I protect him. Your son cares about animals- maybe a hard your in. With PDA you need to allow him the control and allow him to see WHY certain behaviours will bring consequences he doesn't want. It's not reward and punishment that you parent's control it's natural consequences that he himself controls. My son understanding this was a massive turning point. I have weeks between violent episodes now.

You probably have had Ross Greene plan B recommended. It's an amazing book and I recommend that too

It's shit and I do t judge you. You are not alone no matter how it feels. There are so so many of us who live this life but we all hide at home so now visible but we understand xx

The difference with care homes is that staff aren't so warn down by it, mainly because they're a team. I've worked in specialised care homes, it can work very well.
The down side is that if it's a group home, your child may well pick up negative behaviour from others. So I think the success of it depends very much on the set up.