To voluntarily put my child into care

[Crumplesock]

We are at the point now where we think we may need to either put our eldest into the care system or seperate and live in 2 seperate homes to keep our children apart for fear that the eldest will seriously harm the younger two children. However, I'm not sure how we will actually finance two seperate homes (even 2 x 1bedroom flats).

Our son is autistic with a PDA profile. We are low demand parenting, and he does not attend school after being excluded and we are following his lead in Home Education. We followed the At Peace Parenting Course (which is amazing and so insightful, if not a little crazy on price!) but she told us we need to radically accept that this is our son's disability, this is part of it and we need to accommodate it. She shared how her family had to live sperately for a while. We are being advised by all the professionals that we are doing all we can for our son's needs and are accommodating and parenting him in line with his disabilities. But I just feel so broken at it.

As our son is getting bigger, his level of aggression is increasing and becoming harder to manage. We attempt to keep the children separated at all times but this is hard when there is only 1 parent at home and all 3 do need to be watched constantly.

Our other two children, and us parents too, are receiving multiple injuries daily.

Our son has taken to doing home workouts, which is absolutely brilliant and I want to encourage a healthy lifestyle but his strength is crazy. I've witnessed him do 20+ pull ups, he can now lift 1.5× his bodyweight in a Deadlift. I spoke to him about this passion of his and he said its so he can always make sure he is the strongest and to make people scared of him.

I know deep down there's a scared boy in there, whose doing this as a reaction to school trauma and being pushed around by school bullies (he had it quite bad). But it also terrifies me at how he is stronger than me and it won't be long before he levels with my husband.

I have spoke to Social Sevices today who has said they'll get a support package and stated that this is Child-on-parent (and sibling) abuse and that they do need to safe guard our other children

The poisoning thing I too thought was very concerning as it is a malicious thing to do.
It's not like lashing out suddenly, but requires planning and time- sounds like the hates all other children, including his siblings.

What are psychiatrists for, if it isn't for children like this?

You need to give him up to protect your other children.

He will only get bigger, stronger, smarter and more difficult.

This woman looks perfect: https://www.psychiatryinlondon.co.uk

She specialises in exactly this and can do consultations via Zoom if you can’t get there.

“Her specialism lies with autistic children, young people and adults who present with particularly complex needs relating to co-occurring mental or physical health conditions, additional learning needs, and/or requiring significant levels of support or adaptation in daily life, such as Pathological Demand Avoidance, Gender Dysphoria, Selective Mutism and Eating Disorders amongst others.”

I've pm-ed you some clinics to try in London, I hope some of them come through

There’s ton in Hampshire.

This broke my heart to read

I am so sorry your family failed you. They’re the one family you’d think would do everything to protect you and it’s unimaginable to think the one person supposed to protect you failed you.

Tbh there isn't going to be one transformative solution here. It will be like a jigsaw, with lots of pieces.

I have a daughter with PDA - she has 2 formal diagnoses of it and she went to a secondary school for children with speech and language difficulties with an ehc plan.

One thing I can tell you is that pda gets so much easier as they get older. You are in the worst of it atm as they have so little personal independence yet a growing sense of panic at the demands placed on them.

My daughter started to thrive once she was able to choose gcse subjects and drop stuff she didn't like.

She is now an adult with a job and a boyfriend and she has moved in with him. She never did a single chore here (demand) but she is anal about keeping her own place clean (her choice).

We did lots of different things over the years. She tried adhd meds for example, but what worked better for her was the sen school.

Our biggest help came form sensory integration therapy and a specialist OT report. From what you have said about your son, I would recommend you explore these as ways to help him self regulate and for you to help him to regulate.

My daughter sucked a dummy until she was 11 for example - this was her primary self soothing strategy. She would do it at homev- she also held another dummy in another hand and pinched it.

When we saw the OT report it recommended all sorts of other interventions. And they really helped. You can DIY a lot of this stuff from books like The Out of Synch Child btw.

One of the most helpful things we did was auditory integration therapy. This is actually available from NHS OTs and Speech and Language therapists, so it is not a crazy alternative treatment. It involves listening to scratchy music through special headphones.

It may be that a personalised sensory diet will really help. It may be medication. Maybe NVR for you. Maybe respite or residential school or a section 20 placement with the LA.

Atm you are somewhat hidden from view as your son is not in school. Often the only way to really get help is to go back to school where professionals can see the problems and bring the relevant help in xx

Hello ! I am the sister of a pda asd ( exploring other personality disorders) and also the mother of 1.

Brother 1 was violent to my mum and my other brother. There was a massive age difference so by the time the aggression started I had built my life and own home with kids. There is 2 years between my 2 brothers. They are now actually both adult age. So from 9 up until around 15 he was extremely aggressive and it took a massive negative effect on my youngest brother I offered him to live with me many times but he didn't want to leave my mum ( this is important to factor in how your other children will worry about the parent with eldest) if it is going to be the plan you want to get it in play while they are this young. At worst there was machete attacks and attempts to rip my mums eyes out. He was eventually put on a certain medication and incidents decreased majorly. Panic buttons and security doors were fitted in the house after the police attended incidents decreased even further. Now incidents only really occur at extreme upsets or change but are much less minor. Social will be able to advise you of options. Just know you aren't alone and you are doing your best.

I would say poisoning other people's water with glue is sociopathic behaviour OP.

I don't have anything else to add, from what others have said. But I would seriously consider medicating him. The fact there is a 1 and 4 year old scared in their own home, which should never ever be the case, shows there's something needing to be done. No one would judge you for putting your abusive son in care.

The poor boy must be traumatised, but he's risking the safety of a baby and a young child. He's only going to get stronger as he's older. So sad and difficult for you all.

This, essentially.

Painful for you all.

Thank you very much.

You could try Dr Channing at Alternative CAMHS https://alternativecamhs.co.uk/ He was fantastic with DD3 and moved things around to assess her within a week of referral. He's pretty tricky to get hold of at first by email, but don't let that put you off. It's about £300 for an initial assessment. Due to the severity of her symptoms, he prescribed medication for DD3 on the first appointment.

I've just sent a group email to the 9 services that I've been asking support from and copied in BBC news stating the legislation and how we are a family in crisis.

Just feel so desperate. I feel bad for being in work tbh when I know what's going on at home but if I don't work I don't get paid and then we will be even worse off

I am sorry if you thought my post was blaming the child. However, this is abuse - unintended and not premeditated but it is child on adult abuse which is now recognised.

Parents should not be told to put up and shut up as all members of the family need support.

He is only 8, all his behaviour can be linked to anxiety and need for autonomy that are directly linked to his disability. I know people are caught up on the glue thing, and yes I was horrified, but he also tried to poison himself. His rationale was that if the whole class got sick from school then they wouldn't be made to go back and it would get closed down. It's not that he hates other children.

This is not excusing the violence and not stating I'm allowing or accepting that my other 2 are at risk and are suffering. I am wanting to protect them too.

I am heartbroken that some people think those who are neurodivergent shouldn't have children. I'm neurodivergent and it's quite clear now that my Dad is too, and I'm very grateful for my life and my Dad is amazing (unfortunately he doesn't live close by).

I am grateful for the open and honest accounts of all of those who have lived similar, whether as the parent or the siblings.

My email to the 9 services, copying in the BBC, has had some impact - already we have now been accepted, finally, onto the respite scheme (although they're full until June) and the GP has called back stating he is looking into what he can do as a matter of urgency

Great!! Continue being a squeaky wheel. I'd copy your MP in too. They can really make stuff happen.

Well done. You are doing an amazing job

Honestly ignore those people who aren't helpful. You are under no obligation to educate, or to defend yourself.

Of course those of us who are neuro divergent should have families if we want.

Save your energy for where it is needed

Those who know how it is see you and are willing you on.

OP I didn't want sound like I was judging you for you choices and I'm sorry if that's how it sounded.
I just wanted to say that they were YOUR choices. Your child didn't chose to have two small siblings that are over stimulating and require a lot of attention from his parents. He didn't chose this to affect him negatively or to have autism.

That's why I didn't like all the comments advising you to not think much about it and put him into care or suggesting he is abusive. It should be you and your husband who take responsibility and explore all the options before considering care. It sounds from your updates that's exactly what you're doing and if all fails I won't be judging you for resorting to the last option you have.

No, there is not a convention to describe this as abuse - that is an extremely contested descriptor. Many organisations recognise the inappropriateness of labelling behaviours arising from a lack of developmental capacity or learning disabilities with pejorative and judgemental labels and instead describe behaviour as distressed, violent or challenging. Have a chat with the National Autistic Society, Cerebra or Scope on their view of ethical and appropriate language to describe this 8 year old's behaviour.

Just found a private clinic that has availability in December! So it's all rolling into a place a bit more, just got to apply for a credit card now to pay the £2k initial fee!

I am feeling a little more hopeful that if we can get everything into action then we may work out all okay

Avoiding the use of child-blaming language has nothing to do with 'telling parents to put up and shut up' - that's a complete red herring. It is about having a thorough understanding of the child and the origins of their behaviours and compassion for all parties. Of course all parties need to be understood, heard and supported. This is doesn't require a traumatised neurodivergent 8 year old to be labelled as an abuser.

I can't see if you get DLA? this is how we paid for a private diagnosis.
The impulsive behaviour and aggression screams ADHD to me.

Is your son under camhs. Would you consider someone seeing him privately for medical management of autism?

Sorry just seen that you have