To voluntarily put my child into care

[Crumplesock]

We are at the point now where we think we may need to either put our eldest into the care system or seperate and live in 2 seperate homes to keep our children apart for fear that the eldest will seriously harm the younger two children. However, I'm not sure how we will actually finance two seperate homes (even 2 x 1bedroom flats).

Our son is autistic with a PDA profile. We are low demand parenting, and he does not attend school after being excluded and we are following his lead in Home Education. We followed the At Peace Parenting Course (which is amazing and so insightful, if not a little crazy on price!) but she told us we need to radically accept that this is our son's disability, this is part of it and we need to accommodate it. She shared how her family had to live sperately for a while. We are being advised by all the professionals that we are doing all we can for our son's needs and are accommodating and parenting him in line with his disabilities. But I just feel so broken at it.

As our son is getting bigger, his level of aggression is increasing and becoming harder to manage. We attempt to keep the children separated at all times but this is hard when there is only 1 parent at home and all 3 do need to be watched constantly.

Our other two children, and us parents too, are receiving multiple injuries daily.

Our son has taken to doing home workouts, which is absolutely brilliant and I want to encourage a healthy lifestyle but his strength is crazy. I've witnessed him do 20+ pull ups, he can now lift 1.5× his bodyweight in a Deadlift. I spoke to him about this passion of his and he said its so he can always make sure he is the strongest and to make people scared of him.

I know deep down there's a scared boy in there, whose doing this as a reaction to school trauma and being pushed around by school bullies (he had it quite bad). But it also terrifies me at how he is stronger than me and it won't be long before he levels with my husband.

I have spoke to Social Sevices today who has said they'll get a support package and stated that this is Child-on-parent (and sibling) abuse and that they do need to safe guard our other children

On one hand I feel like it's your responsibility because you must have known autism is hereditary and you made a choice to have so many children, yet now your son will be punished and taken into care at very young age

This is a good point. I know it’s “too late”
now but based on the ages of your kids it sounds like you knew the issues he had before you went and had two more kids - unless of course he’s only been like this for the past year or so? Perhaps a warning to anyone else facing a similar situation.

He might be having trouble bonding because he sees siblings as people who leave and die. And he is actively rejecting them to make himself feel safe? Could be totally wrong but Just a thought. I can’t remember if you’ve mentioned it or not but has he had counselling or some kind of play or nature therapy?

Husband is neurotypical.

This is one of the most ignorant posts I have read on this thread. Do you think the issue is just about ‘parenting’?!
He has a disability, an illness if you will. If you ever get ill, say have a heart attack, I hope you never go to hospital. It’s not the state’s responsibility to look after your health!

I know a parent who made the agonising decision to put her son in to care due to violence and not being able to meet his needs.

It hasn't been straightforward or easy but it was the right choice.

If you put your child in care you can give an opinion on decisions that are made but ultimately you lose your rights. The accommodation he lives in may not be in your town. It may change suddenly and he may get moved. At one point my friends son was in an air bnb with round the clock carers while waiting for suitable accommodation. At another point he was a 90 minute drive away.

My friend says it was the best decision for her son and her family but it's not easy.

She said he had a great sense of justice, and care towards animals, not that he takes enjoyment hurting them!
The most loving this is to put him into care and say goodbye to him?! Are you ok?! If he has to go into care, yes that may well be what is needed, but to then say goodbye and abandon him?! He can go into care and still have his parents visit him and have a relationship with him

You are making an ill-informed assumption and not thinking about the counterfactual.

I don't think you understand demand avoidance.

OP, what an awful situation.

I definitely think the first port of call should be medication. It's almost encouraging he is not medicated, as this has the potential to significantly reduce the violent impulses.

Then you also need respite. Councils do actually provide this so there is hope you'll get a bit, although likely too little. It's likely to be a few hours a month.

I'd ignore people advocating two homes as the one living will him would be in constant danger. Your life matters as does that of your husband.

Have you exhausted options in terms of looking at residential schools? There will be more options once he is 11.

Somewhere like this?
https://senadgroup.com/aran-hall-school/

As hard as it is, I think you do have to.prioritise your two youngest. There are no winners in a situation where you are all exposed to violence daily.

You have a PDA toddler? As in you have received a formal diagnosis that your toddler has PDA following an NHS autism assessment?

Hello OP

DS1 14 has PDA. He was 8 when things went badly wrong for us - I think it's the age they realise they are different to other kids.
Violence was common against me mostly. DS2 is 3.5 years younger and witnessed awful stuff.
DS1 has been out of school now for 2.5 years. It took 2 years for him to process school related trauma.He's on Prozac now which has made an immense difference. He's growing up too, which helps.

Not sure what I'm saying really.
Sympathies - it's an absolute living hell. And it's never going to end - I'll never be free of the fear and stress until the day I die.

I think you are well aware that people can empathise but if they don't know PDA, well they don't know. It's a private madness just for us.

DH - ASD and I suspect PDA too, took early retirement (lucky us we could afford that). Split the load, always at home. He's heavily involved with PDA orgs.

Physical space is useful - we manage this with a 'stretched out' house - we can all avoid one another! If you can afford 2 households do it.

You've a shitty choice to make: if he goes into care, it will potentially benefit the rest of the family whilst probably traumatising him further. If he stays with you, it will probably benefit him whilst traumatising everyone else.

I can't promise you it will get better. It has for us and that's despite my still, cold realisation some years ago that my child would try to kill me one day.

Best wishes

I am so sorry for the loss of your son OP. I can't offer any advice on your current situation, but I lost my eldest child 8 years ago. The trauma of that was huge to all of us. My younger children are just about getting their lives back, but none of us will ever be the same. Youngest is now on medication for anxiety and likely to remain so long term. The effect of the loss of a sibling is often underestimated.

I feel like you've buried the lede here. How long ago did your other son die??

As a mum of an autistic/ADHD child with a PDA profile I think you need to be wary of the low demands or no demands parenting. Yes you absolutely need to parent a child with PDA differently and limit demands but actually be careful to ensure there are firm and safe boundaries in place. No demands or low demands should never mean no rules or boundaries. I am not saying that's the case for you but it seems your child is dominating your whole life and you are allowing it encouraged by a course and trainer.

You still need to be the parent and be in total control. I can only imagine how difficult my son would be if we gave into his every whim. He is already difficult but would be hell on earth to live with and nobody could cope being around him. Whilst parenting a child with PDA is way harder it's better to think about long term strategies not short term. I.e Giving them whatever they want as it's not a demand is a short term strategy with very negative consequences long term as it sets them up to me more difficult.

I also have 3 kids with the oldest having significant complex needs as detailed above. The middle child is being assessed as he shows signs of nuerodivergent as well as having a medical problem and my youngest child is nuerotypical as far as we know so believe me I do understand it's tough but all your children are as important as each other not just the one with needs.

I am wondering reading all this if your son has sensory issues with noise, lights etc. Is he lashing out because he is overwhelmed by his siblings noise? In this case hive him ear defenders, his own space and try do quieter things with them (hard at that age I know). Is he jealous because they have taken your attention? Give him 1 to 1 time away from his siblings where you sit and play board games and connect.

Also he needs to be in school for your sanity and his signings safety. Please get in touch with your local education board and make it clear it's illegal that your son does not have a school space and give them a deadline to find a SEN school that your son can attend.

OP hugs and best wishes. Please somehow also get any help you need in all of this.

In the future/adulthood is it likely that your son will live independently or be in long term residential care? If he will need residential care then it is almost a set path. Are there options for a more gentle transition.

Because of the impact on the younger children you need to act sooner rather than later. Growing up with unpredictable outbursts from a sibling is terrifying and damaging.

Quite similar DS here. We just struggled through, thankfully other 3 were super easy going. In retrospect I should have had him removed for a while, but it's a hard call. If anyone talks/meets him now, everyone comments on how quiet and polite he is. But he drinks too much and gambles and is contantly borrowing money from people( especially me). Was kicked out of school at 15. He is a grown up now and he has certainly not reached his full potential but is very capable , friendly, funny young man.I'm not sure what else I could have done. ( we had complicating factors regarding his father), but I just kept telling his siblings, he will grow up and calm down one day. I took him to every type of therapist under the sun - personally I don't think they made any difference.
Only thing is my DS was more of a furniture/door/anything in the room smasher. His nastiness to me was always verbal. He would fight with his older brother, never with the younger 2. They are all pretty good mates now. It's also just a given amongst our family that if DS2 says he is going to do something or be somewhere. The odds are 50/50 that he actually will. So we have sort of accepted him as he is. It is very stressful. I know your pain OP. 8 is very young though having said that I remember my husband walking in after work one night when DS was 3 and I was saying" he's doing it purposefully, I swear". He was throwing duplo and matchbox cars at my head. EXDH laughed until a toy towtruck landed on his forehead!. Should have put him into baseball!
Best wishes with it all. It really sucks. Personally splitting up your family would be my last resort but only you know what will work( Meds and respite don't seem to have been explained but that's up to you)

I am very very sorry you are experiencing this as a family.

Seeking residential care support may feel drastic but may offer either temporary or permanent respite for the family. It is not a dungeon that you are sending your son but a specialist facility that enables him to receive the support and care he needs. You can still have regular contact and visits and can rebuild a more positive relationship.

You are experiencing abuse and even though it is not intended to harm you and is a result of his disability it is having a very damaging impact on you and your family. And you are a person with human rights and you matter.

Your son needs boundaries and routines, unfortunately the only parenting style available to you (so you can maintain an equilibrium) does not enable this. A specialist facility could offer this and you may find he is more regulated and his emotional lability is less pronounced in an environment that is more controlled and has the resources to set and maintain firm boundaries.

Again, OP, my heart breaks for you but personally I would never judge you for seeking a residential care package for your son. It sounds the only solution.

I didn't want to bite on on those who are saying it's our fault for having more children as its is too late, but to point out DH is neurotypical, I wasn't diagnosed until DS was diagnosed, DS was only diagnosed last year and we kept being told his struggles were in relation to his brother dying. And after a loss of a son, another child coming along felt like a miracle.

In regards to the weight training, as I said upthread he isn't weight training, he is enjoying his monkey bars and climbing frame he has. I'm not going to stop him from exercising using his own bodyweight as its one self regulated tool he does enjoy solo

I know for those who don't know about PDA will find low demand parenting confusing. This does not mean there are no boundaries or we are letting him rule the roost, he knows we are parents but we have a collaborative approach with him and his siblings. It's not lazy parenting and actually means we have to constantly think 3 steps ahead.

Generally speaking DS is very rarely adjacent to his siblings, DH wears our youngest in a sling on him pretty much all day (she was born prematurely so actually is only 9 months old) and then the 4 Yr old follows me or him about too when not at school.

They both do have their own set of chores and currently our eldest has asked to do the gardening so he has been doing that quite a bit.

I suppose like most SEN parents, we are just so shocked at the wait time for everything. Even getting hold of anyone on the phone is impossible, it's all emails only (even when I give them my number to phone) and then the respond back saying they will reply within 2-3 weeks. That's just for an initial reply, then they have to ask for further information and then talk to their line manager and then talk to other services and before you know it, 4 email exchanges have turned into 10 weeks.

I have contacted my local councillors and MP but have had no reply from them.

Don’t agree. Sertraline is an SSRI, which can be very beneficial in these cases.

DS is already very active with exercise

He doesn’t have weights. OP has already explained they are toys - monkey bars, and they are a way of self regulating. Removing them will potentially make things worse.

OP anyone criticising you and your husband for your parenting should spend a day/an hour/a minute in your shoes. PDA is incredibly difficult to manage and it sounds like you are doing you upmost to help your child as well as his siblings. For anyone who thinks he is just being naughty/aggressive, please don't comment. This is not a thread where you should comment unless you have knowledge.

I think you would be absolutely within your rights to make the decision to send your son to residential for the care of him and to keep his siblings safe. It doesn't have to be forever. The idea of running 2 households sounds idealistic and not many people could or should manage this. I really think you need to be guided by professionals as to what should happen next and see what options social work have. Protecting your younger children has to be prioritised and its a child protection issue that social work should be actively helping you with.

Have you heard of Dr Naomi Fisher, she has lots of information which might be helpful.

Wishing you all the best, it sounds like you are amazing parents and its important to recognise this.

Of course exercise is good for people.
But Setraline along with zero demand saved my child's life.

There is no way 'taking him for a brisk walk' would have touched the surface. He couldn't leave his bedroom!

You are talking about your child. Other people have different experiences.

And gentle yoga for trauma? You've got to be joking right? When a child is in the kind of state mine was in they can't even bring themselves to eat or get out of bed surviving is a demand. We had 3 broken tvs in 6 months, we didn't have a TV in our house at all after that for an entire year because we had objects thrown at them for the most minor of demands.

Sorry but you are all theory but don't actually have a clue.

Which SS team is he under? Childrens safeguarding? Or children with disabilities? What support have they offered? Have they actually mentioned a care placement, it seems very unlikely that you would be offered that at this stage. Has your son had therapy to help him deal with the loss of a sibling?
A residential school could be great but it would likely take years for that to ever be a possibility. These placements cost upwards of 100k amd it will be a fight to get one named I'm his EHCP.