To voluntarily put my child into care

[Crumplesock]

We are at the point now where we think we may need to either put our eldest into the care system or seperate and live in 2 seperate homes to keep our children apart for fear that the eldest will seriously harm the younger two children. However, I'm not sure how we will actually finance two seperate homes (even 2 x 1bedroom flats).

Our son is autistic with a PDA profile. We are low demand parenting, and he does not attend school after being excluded and we are following his lead in Home Education. We followed the At Peace Parenting Course (which is amazing and so insightful, if not a little crazy on price!) but she told us we need to radically accept that this is our son's disability, this is part of it and we need to accommodate it. She shared how her family had to live sperately for a while. We are being advised by all the professionals that we are doing all we can for our son's needs and are accommodating and parenting him in line with his disabilities. But I just feel so broken at it.

As our son is getting bigger, his level of aggression is increasing and becoming harder to manage. We attempt to keep the children separated at all times but this is hard when there is only 1 parent at home and all 3 do need to be watched constantly.

Our other two children, and us parents too, are receiving multiple injuries daily.

Our son has taken to doing home workouts, which is absolutely brilliant and I want to encourage a healthy lifestyle but his strength is crazy. I've witnessed him do 20+ pull ups, he can now lift 1.5× his bodyweight in a Deadlift. I spoke to him about this passion of his and he said its so he can always make sure he is the strongest and to make people scared of him.

I know deep down there's a scared boy in there, whose doing this as a reaction to school trauma and being pushed around by school bullies (he had it quite bad). But it also terrifies me at how he is stronger than me and it won't be long before he levels with my husband.

I have spoke to Social Sevices today who has said they'll get a support package and stated that this is Child-on-parent (and sibling) abuse and that they do need to safe guard our other children

I haven't said you are an idiot!

It is perfectly fine for us to have a difference of opinion.

I think the OT will depend on the area. We found one very quickly and were able to use the LA Ed psych report because we were appointed one who didn't have bias. I know there are waiting lists for decent one.

Good legal support costs ££££ all I'm saying is that if you have a limited budget what you need to spend those ££££ is the reports because without actual evidence the legal side can't prove the need.

I'm glad that this post acknowledges that CAMHS in refusing to see an autistic child with mental health issues is failing to meet its legal requirements, sometimes an MP letter can unlock it, it did for me.

I don't think we should argue with each other it won't help the OP.

We don't know what the OP's financial situation is. The only financial cost I incurrent in getting my son's EHCP sorted in the end was the OT report because I used a mix of charities and NHS services for the rest of it.

Thanks for the reply. Camhs said I have to exhaust everything before she can go on steraline or any medication. I wish I could find someone private to prescribe. School said she is 7/10 at best every day

Do it. Make your younger children safe. Even if it's the most difficult decision in the world you are saving yourself from worse.
Sincere sympathies.

Does your area have a complex behaviour service? It's normally available to children who have a diagnosed intellectual disability

An residential school placement will normally have a care component and need documented social care needs.

This doesn't sound like the OP's child though. We have this issue - you aren't allowed to have behaviour needs without LDs.

My son went to a special residential college but there was a school as well. You can do weekly boarding, termly boarding or 52 week placements. My son did a 38 week placement so home in the holidays. It’s definitely something I’d look into in your shoes. To be honest if I’d known before how much progress my son would make at college I would have looked at residential school when he was younger. Amazing place .

As you haven't tried medication yet I would be trying this first. I've seen great improvements for similar children once medicated. Ask CAHMS ASAP.

Agree. I got a private EP, SALT , OT and social worker reports fairly quickly when needed for tribunal. Definitely all within a few weeks.

Be aware the effectiveness for sertraline over exercise is minimal. If you can get you child out walking everyday statistically your likely to get a positive affect

That is the dream

Again respectfully I need to disagree with this.

There is a proven link between autism and lower Serotonin levels.

For these autistic people SSRIs can be very helpful.

Very different from area to area. 🤪🤪🤪🤪

The low demand parenting clearly isn't working if he's regularly attacking and injuring every member of the household. You need to get him away from his younger siblings, he is going to ruin their childhood and possibly ruin their mental health for life

It must be so stressful for you all, I also thought he would be a teen. For everyone else’s safety I would look into the options of different places available where he could be placed with the correct therapy to try and help him- he needs help now, before teen years and hormones come along. I’d also worry that if he wasn’t placed somewhere soon that SS would take your babies to keep them safe. So sorry you’re going through this, and definitely remove his weights, it’s not good for his body’s development for him to be doing this so young

@Crumplesock If he could have broken your husbands ankle he could have seriously hurt or killed your 1 year old. I really feel for you because he is your son and he clearly has many good points and areas he excels in but violence is unacceptable in a house with other children (and you wandering supermarkets late at night to stay safe is both sad and ridiculous.)

The example you gave of him trying to poison the other children by putting glue in their water bottles is very unsettling as that takes planning and premeditation rather than heat of the moment. Is he violent outside the house or just to family members?

It’s almost like you need a long term plan- as in decade long. If school isn’t going to be an option for him ever what do you think he will be able to achieve? How can you get him to be self sufficient or will he always need to live with you/support. Are there any residential options?

@lifeturnsonadime

Hmm yes and no

The seratonin/autusm evidence is not quite that clear cut.

Seratonin

https://www.thetransmitter.org/spectrum/serotonins-link-autism-explained/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4824539/

Neither is the evidence for sertraline

Nhs acknowledges for mild depression, exercise has been proven to be more effective. Both exeercise and antidepressants have been shown to be more or less equally effective . Both can be a good combination. However if The side effects of antidepressants can make exercise less likely, antidepressants become less effective. I haven't linked because if you Google sertaine vs antidepressants raising seratonin levels you'll be overwhelmed with links

If you are talking about trauma management, the evidence for a exercise/yoga approach is not insignificant. (Explored more fully in books like "the body keeps the score").

Exercise as treatment may seem a bit hippy dippy but its actually well documented, more easily accessed for children and with less potential side effects than anti depressants

Id still be getting rid of the ops push up bars and weights. Thats scary!!

Hi @Crumplesock I don't know if any of what I suggest will help, but firstly, do not put him on meds. My sons hormonal growth was badly affected. He's 22 and only just started growing facial fluff. He was 21 before he grew leg hair. He looks about 12yo even though he's built because he works out and is in the construction industry.

Is there anything he could use to reduce stimulation like ear buds? It sounds to me like he over stimulates and then needs to release it explosively which is why it's violent.

Baroque music is known to be calming, try playing it in the house as background music.

Martial arts classes might be a good option - tai chi might be a good option, it's all about control and is slow movements. It's about energy flows versus attack/defence. Alternatively yoga is good for keeping our minds calm and improving flexibility - if he's like my DB he may have reduced fine motor skills and be less flexible than he could be.

Consider getting him into running. It's great for mental health and will use up some of his excess energy. It won't make him muscular either.

Please try everything you can to keep him at home or you may lose him because as you've described, he thinks only in black and white. Sending him away equals you don't want him. And who knows what will happen to him if he goes into care.

I would suggest you consider a live in special school though - this would be for him not you and he'd see it that way as long as you sell it to him properly. I don't know the name of it, but my friends son went to one in North Wales. He recently graduated from uni, so they did a great job. He had complex needs.

If you separate your homes, don't expect financial help from anyone - I went through this when my DD moved out to protect herself. It's like they think you've made a bad decision or it's your choice ergo your problem...! It cost me a small fortune over 2 years.

Sending hugs all round. If he's like my DS he will feel bad about losing it. At the mo though he's only 8yo, so his emotional intelligence will be low and challenged due to his ASD.

Good luck with everything x

You have 8 year old with PDA, 4 year old with epilepsy, neurodivergent husband, have ADHD yourself and a now a third very yound child. That's a lot on your plate.
On one hand I feel like it's your responsibility because you must have known autism is hereditary and you made a choice to have so many children, yet now your son will be punished and taken into care at very young age. On other hand it seems like you've tried to do your best to help him and I completely understand that you're worried about safety of younger children. I can't even begin to imagine how hard it must be. It's easy to judge when I'm not in your shoes.

Some posters recommended live in school and it sounds like a sensible option but I would get as much professional advice and help as possible before making final decisions.

Good luck OP 💐

@Crumplesock , I have a 7 1/2 year old with PDA, and we are having similar issues. She bites me, hits, kicks, smashes windows and crockery, and has thrown a frying pan at me this week. She is also loving, cares deeply about me and her pets, and is incredibly funny and intelligent; she is at such juxtapositions and can turn on a sixpence. There is a huge hormone surge at age 7, and this ramps up their behaviour until they are about 9.

She is essentially an only child-her sister is 21 and away at Uni-but dd does become very disregulated when her sister comes for tea or to see her, so I can’t imagine what it must be like having two other siblings at home all the time.

I took her out of school, home educated and we are low demand. She returned to a new school this week, and seems to be enjoying it, but her anxiety is sky high. It is definitely an anxiety-driven disability, and there is so much equalising behaviour. I usually feel like I am in a marriage with her, not a parent and child!

The new school has very high expectations of the children, both in their behaviour and academically, and she is really rising to the challenge. At her old school she was top of the class with very little effort on her part so was bored rigid, and was regularly in “scuffles” at school; a number of the girls in her class would taunt her until she lashed out, or would kick her under the table or push her at the top of the steps, and then she would retaliate and get the blame. So far that hasn’t happened here, and I’m hoping it will continue.

While she was home educated she started riding and trampolining, and has kept these up this week after returning to school, and they are definitely helping. She needs “heavy work”-lots of bouncing, and being in charge of a heavy animal really helps on a deep level. I wish she could just spend all day every day trampolining and riding!

I would definitely look at boarding schools. There is a school in Cambridge called Gretton that I have been looking into.

Feel free to message if you just want to offload-my eldest has a miriad of diagnoses, but her behaviour never came close to being as difficult as my younger one’s PDA.

You’ve said he is scared, so he needs nurturing not rejection and isolation.

I’m sad that the solution that ss suggested was that of care - this alone makes me question their decision making process. Sounds like they don’t have the time, finance, or resources to adequately support you whilst also keeping you all safe. Surely there are other solutions.

It’s a tough decision, but your son is only 8 years old! Our brains don’t fully mature until we are 24. And he has special needs.

I would exhaust all other options, and would never consider putting him into care. If he felt rubbish and rejected by his peers, imagine the feeling of rejection by his parents.

I would do my own research, and consult child specialists, psychiatrists etc. I wouldn’t wait for the nhs, just put it on a cc. In the mean time keep your other children safe and separated!

I would rather medicate my child than put them into care, even if that is just a temporary solution. Once they are outside your home you have absolutely no idea who you’ve given access to your child. They could sa him or a number of other terrible things.

Meds like someone else suggested as a first port of call to help with the outbursts/aggression.
I haven’t read all the posts but the speech and language therapy seem like a great start; perhaps some other relaxing therapy too that involves time in nature, and something active.

Best of luck!

I’ve just seen that his older sibling died! I’m so sorry for your loss. This is traumatic for him, and how would he be processing this, what is his understanding of it all?

Who knows what thoughts or association he has made after this, in terms of trying to be strong so it won’t happen to him? Or the acting out because he doesn’t know how to address the emotions he is feeling. Like when toddlers smack because they’re sad or upset.

Former educator who worked in social services here and I agree that is exactly what his life will be like in care most likely in terms of moving from placement to placement.

I thought he was 13 or something initially . If you put him in care now at age 8 it’ll likely get markedly worse with his anger. He will feel terribly rejected.

The only difference is it’ll be someone’s else problem and you won’t be in direct harm which is great for you but not for him . The outcomes aren’t good at all, I’d go for two households if possible as the other kids needed safeguarding and possibly at the most look into the possibility of respite care every other weekend or something

I can’t imagine being in your position. You must feel so torn. You know that your son’s thoughts are not normal. They are indeed rather sinister. I can imagine you must feel so helpless. I would be tempted to ask about the residential schools. My cousin’s kid has been spending time in one here in Aus for non-verbal autistic kids. He has come a long way. She has four kids on the autism spectrum and he thinks he can fly. It is impossible to stop him from leaping off or out of things backwards while keeping the other kids safe. He’s also 15, bigger than she is and she can’t physically stop him at all.