To voluntarily put my child into care

[Crumplesock]

We are at the point now where we think we may need to either put our eldest into the care system or seperate and live in 2 seperate homes to keep our children apart for fear that the eldest will seriously harm the younger two children. However, I'm not sure how we will actually finance two seperate homes (even 2 x 1bedroom flats).

Our son is autistic with a PDA profile. We are low demand parenting, and he does not attend school after being excluded and we are following his lead in Home Education. We followed the At Peace Parenting Course (which is amazing and so insightful, if not a little crazy on price!) but she told us we need to radically accept that this is our son's disability, this is part of it and we need to accommodate it. She shared how her family had to live sperately for a while. We are being advised by all the professionals that we are doing all we can for our son's needs and are accommodating and parenting him in line with his disabilities. But I just feel so broken at it.

As our son is getting bigger, his level of aggression is increasing and becoming harder to manage. We attempt to keep the children separated at all times but this is hard when there is only 1 parent at home and all 3 do need to be watched constantly.

Our other two children, and us parents too, are receiving multiple injuries daily.

Our son has taken to doing home workouts, which is absolutely brilliant and I want to encourage a healthy lifestyle but his strength is crazy. I've witnessed him do 20+ pull ups, he can now lift 1.5× his bodyweight in a Deadlift. I spoke to him about this passion of his and he said its so he can always make sure he is the strongest and to make people scared of him.

I know deep down there's a scared boy in there, whose doing this as a reaction to school trauma and being pushed around by school bullies (he had it quite bad). But it also terrifies me at how he is stronger than me and it won't be long before he levels with my husband.

I have spoke to Social Sevices today who has said they'll get a support package and stated that this is Child-on-parent (and sibling) abuse and that they do need to safe guard our other children

What about channelling his interest in sport/fitness to do a sports coaching qualification?

Yeah sounds appropriate for an 8 year old.

Autism isn't automatically a mental health difficulty but a mental health difficulty often is co-morbid to autism.

If you will treat anxiety and depression for a NT child but not an autistic child then you are, literally, discriminating on the basis of a disability.

CAMHS do try this on. If you argue it you will win.

A lawyer could help you to get the LA to fund a suitable school, residential or otherwise, for your son.

A previous poster suggested that CAMHS is acting unlawfully by refusing to treat your child, as he is disabled. But I don't think you need a lawyer here.
Write to CAMHS again, write to the clinical director and whoever else you can find who is senior on their website. Use the word 'risk' a lot. Stress that you fear you can't keep your children safe. They have a duty of care to treat him or to refer him on. Again, go to your MP. They can often unlock these situations.

For school you could pay a lawyer to support you. But I think I would really focus on getting him treatment. Good CAMHS clinicians will be able to put some of his needs in writing and again that will help you find a school.

Please do dm me if you like. I am horrified by the lack of support you are getting and would be really happy to help.

Has your son had an occupational health or speech and language assessment? Ed psych is all very well but OT and SALT can offer a lot more support if needed

Your children’s rights are equal to those of your violent child.

Children have a right not to suffer DV.

You’ll be lucky to get a secure place for DS - there are 184 for the UK.

Yes. CAMHS should have a neuro develomental department in which they diagnose and treat ADHD and autism.

The national treatment centres, such as the one at the Maudsley I linked up-thread have specialist services to treat the mental health difficulties that come with neuro diversity.

It is absolutely the NHS's responsibility to treat here. Do not let them tell you it is not.

I disagree with the majority of posters here. I couldn't put my 8 yo in to care. This will sound judgy and I'm not trying to be an asshole but why did you have your last child? The 4yo I can understand but you must have known your eldest had issues by the time you became pregnant with your youngest? I have no idea how you will manage it but like I said I'd do anything I could to keep my children out of care. The outcomes aren't good. The amount of sexual abuse going on is devastating and he will never forgive you for abandoning him. Other posters have shared stories of how their kids seemed to calm down after a while - I hope that happens for you. Until then I would explore any other option you can including the split household option and reassess in a few years time.

I’m sure you know about these organisations already but just in case:

https://www.ipsea.org.uk

https://sossen.org.uk

@Crumplesock

@Crumplesock

Re legal action, I think that it would involve an application for a judicial review of the decision made on his care.

I'm not sure that you have reached the stage where a judicial review can be sought as it's unclear as to whether you have received a letter which explains the decision made and the reasons behind it.

Coram may be a good port of call for you on this question.

https://childlawadvice.org.uk/

How is this helpful ?

That's awful. Every parent's worst dread.

That is obviously going to have a massive effect on any sibling- Could this terrible loss have triggered the violent behaviours?

What a nightmare situation.

Your Husband is good in that he is still sticking around -Many clear out when the family dynamic is like a war zone.

Wandering around supermarkets with a traumatised 4 yr old who said he is so afraid of the eldest cannot go on.

It's not fair on any of you.

The 8 yr old has the Whip hand by the sound of it.

He holds the reins of power, and the four of you are dancing to his tune, because you fear the consequences of standing up to him {?}

Do the other children miss out on stuff because of the focus being mainly on the disruptive one? - the atmosphere must be tense , waiting for the next explosion.

That's not remotely fair or kind- on anyone. the 8 yr old probably knows he's ''in control'' and that makes him feel uncomfortable.

Kids normally like to feel that their parents are the ones in control, not vice versa.

Surely if a child is only 8 yrs old something can be done -Although I have seen children smack their parents about while the parents have a desperate, frightened look in their eyes- Just taking the blows like a rabbit in the headlights.

It obviously cannot continue.

Teachers putting him in a cupboard - they'd only do that to keep everyone safe, surely, including your 8 yr old.

Social services have legal responsibilities to safeguard you and your other children.

The LEA have a legal responsibility to provide an education for your children inaccoundance with their needs.

A solicitor with ensure those legal responsibilities are being met. I personally found our situation was too complex for ipsea and the value of having a lawyer who can contact social services department(and legally threaten them) directly is invaluable.

You need a solicitor who specializes in educational law (my solicitors have been amazing) but if I had my time again I would go for a large firm that also had a care law department .

The likey solution recommended will be residential school, and I guess in your situation that probably is the right one. But look into a Eotas package with a care component as personally I think that ca be better for the child (although not necessarily for you and your other children.

You need to do this quick as you only have a limited time to challenge an EHCP once it's been finalized. It gets complex if you leave it too long

Also, would recommend that those who are confused by low-demand parenting or are struggling to understand why boundaries can conflict with PDA and want to know more about the disability to check out this IG account;
https://www.instagram.com/atpeaceparents?igsh=d2UxYnF6Z3hveHhw

Or the PDA Society; https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/

Or this episode;
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2X6iJzypxvjopXY2ACQg86?si=82YoNSDCTJ2QjPh8ZNriWQ

I personally think money is better spent on reports than lawyers.

I say that as a former solicitor.

Use charities like IPSEA for legal advice on the education side.

Money is best spent on an Educational Psychology report (if you can't get the LA to do one or get one you can trust through the LA), and a Sensory Integration OT if there isn't one within the NHS In your area. You can often self refer to OT and SALT in many areas. I would look at that, otherwise see the GP to ask for a referral.

Evidence is your key.

I would contact the National Autistic Society to ask if they know of any charities that can advise on respite and/ or care arrangements unless anyone on here can point in the right direction.

You said you are AuDHD yourself I think upthread, this is very common, the fact you have an epileptic child means that ND is a genetic issue in your family.

And OP.

Protect the little ones or they will never forgive you. Medicate the 8 year old and stop the lifting. Get him out.

She needs a lawyer.

She is at risk of injury, her family is at risk of injury. The first priority absolutely should be social services. A residential placement will require joint funding, you won't get that if there is no documented social care need.

Camhs are not acting unlawfully if they do not assess there as being a mental health need. The quickest way to challenge that is independent CLINICAL psychologist to assess needs.

However social services will fund a private clinical psychologist in the right circumstances.

CAMHS are acting unlawfully!!!!

His mental health issues are preventing him from being in school and he is physically attacking his family!

I mean it's absolutely astonishing to think that the worst examples of mental health issues require a private psychologist rather than an NHS one.

As someone who was one of the younger children in this scenario I would look to see where you can send your older child. My older brother was violent and my parents went down this path with him to protect us and I will be eternally grateful. There were less kinder options back then unfortunately and SEN wasn’t as well understood so he never got the help he needed and is now serving life.

The rest of us had safe and happy childhoods and have all turned out well with good jobs and kind personalities. I am not sure we would be the same people we are today if he stayed.

People are getting a bit carried away here

If anyone thinks SS are going to come in and place this child in care they should think again

What he needs ideally is an educational placement that can meet his needs and access to some activities in the community

Op when you sense your sim is going to become violent you must retreat to a place of safety

If you do that you will likely see him regress into himself for 20-30 mins whilst he processes his upset - don’t hang around him during this time - leave him alone

or learn how to restrain him in situations of last resort

it would be a mistake to take away the things that are helping him, those bars etc help him get rid of sensory build up - there will be other things he will enjoy - there’s various fb groups in sensory feedback

you must establish boundaries - he can and will understand them but it will be very hard before he gets used to them.

I think CAMHS have said that they can't meet need, not that there is no need.

They need someone to kick them up the arse regardless.

I guess we all come at this from our own experience. I was able to keep my son at home because we did get specialist support with his mental health and then from that a specialist day school. But I know families where even with excellent support that wasn't possible and that could easily have been us too.

Would your eldest be able to help with “chores” or tasks that give him a level of importance or achievement in the household but keeps him distracted away from the other children at critical times?

If he has little structure in the day time he might be able to “help” with something around dinner time to improve his self esteem without violence.

I really sympathise having been through a very similar situation and out the other side. It was a horrendous time, I was at breaking point. I was looking into boarding schools but managed to get some help and when Covid hit, demands became less which helped things. I think separating households could work, it wasn’t an option for me as a lone parent. I am not sure about your son, but my DC, ASD, was definitely better on a one to one basis. I used to think he would have been so much better had he been an only child, much less demands when it is only them and one adult.
I also really wouldn’t have encouraged weights etc if my DC had shown an interest.

I wish you the best of luck, it almost broke me tbh, but we are out the other side with a teen who no longer has any violent outbursts as the demands are no longer an issue. Good luck 💐.

Independent Ed psych is usually 6 months to a year wait list + time for a report. If their waiting lists are even currently open
Private clinical psychologist can be 2-4 weeks wait + time for report.
Private OT hmmm... Good luck finding one with open waiting lists

The OP has a limited time frame to get her EHCP challenge in. I suspect she has grounds for judicial review on the Social services side.

No I'm no inexper idiot, ive take my sons statement to tribunal once and negotiated independently the amendments and significant support required for DS' transition to secondary entity independently and successfully. but no one moves a case on faster than good legal support, especially when neither the LEA nor social services nor camhs are fulfilling their legal responsibilities

I think I would try the respite option if possible. Or two separate homes. Personally as a mum of a sen child different needs residential care would be my last resort. But every situation is different and i completely understand your need to protect all children. Has he had play therapy op? I would keep encouraging sport and fitness. Sometimes I think children with sen need to find their thing and concentrate on that to their hearts content. You sound like a loving parent who is doing her best in a hard situation.