To voluntarily put my child into care

[Crumplesock]

We are at the point now where we think we may need to either put our eldest into the care system or seperate and live in 2 seperate homes to keep our children apart for fear that the eldest will seriously harm the younger two children. However, I'm not sure how we will actually finance two seperate homes (even 2 x 1bedroom flats).

Our son is autistic with a PDA profile. We are low demand parenting, and he does not attend school after being excluded and we are following his lead in Home Education. We followed the At Peace Parenting Course (which is amazing and so insightful, if not a little crazy on price!) but she told us we need to radically accept that this is our son's disability, this is part of it and we need to accommodate it. She shared how her family had to live sperately for a while. We are being advised by all the professionals that we are doing all we can for our son's needs and are accommodating and parenting him in line with his disabilities. But I just feel so broken at it.

As our son is getting bigger, his level of aggression is increasing and becoming harder to manage. We attempt to keep the children separated at all times but this is hard when there is only 1 parent at home and all 3 do need to be watched constantly.

Our other two children, and us parents too, are receiving multiple injuries daily.

Our son has taken to doing home workouts, which is absolutely brilliant and I want to encourage a healthy lifestyle but his strength is crazy. I've witnessed him do 20+ pull ups, he can now lift 1.5× his bodyweight in a Deadlift. I spoke to him about this passion of his and he said its so he can always make sure he is the strongest and to make people scared of him.

I know deep down there's a scared boy in there, whose doing this as a reaction to school trauma and being pushed around by school bullies (he had it quite bad). But it also terrifies me at how he is stronger than me and it won't be long before he levels with my husband.

I have spoke to Social Sevices today who has said they'll get a support package and stated that this is Child-on-parent (and sibling) abuse and that they do need to safe guard our other children

Ummmmm......

This isn't necessarily true either. DD very nearly ended up in a voluntary care arrangement because it was easier to move her out the house than find a care placement suitable for DS. It was discussed with social services. She was however old enough to make this decision for herself and ultimately decided to stay within the family home and accept the care arrangements put in place for DS. Truth be told she regrets this choice and did eventually spend some time living elsewhere although be then it was withfamily. DS' position was quite extreme at the time though.

Sibling risk assessments are a complex business.

So this Mum should put her younger kids in care if the LA can’t place her disabled child? She wouldn’t be making him a priority if she doesn’t have a choice. To suggest she puts her younger children into the care system is ridiculous and callous. Yes at times this arrangement can work but the OP shouldn’t be made to feel like a neglectful parent if it’s not a consideration for her.
This Mum is clearly desperate, exhausted and at the end of her rope and then will read comments like this from people who have no idea about parenting disabled kids alongside managing other children.

Hello again, bed time complete (for now)

Trying to recall what to answer and how to gain most from this thread. I suppose what we need ultimately is support to help all 3 children.

We want all 3 to feel loved and safe and be the best versions of themselves that they can be. Right now I don't think any of them are in a good environment. The eldest is struggling, he is triggered by his siblings and the you get two are at risk. Mental health is poor all around.

I saw some replies from posters who ignored low demand parenting for their PDAers and had success. Low demand parenting has helped us. Our eldest was in complete burn out when we were not low demand parenting and he was constantly attempting to take his own life.

To the posters who think he is manipulative, that is literally his disability that you have issue with. I would advise listening to this podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2Q1THBS95LpEoqxbau6QxO?si=1fAnms95SuecptfpXPNZ_w and find out more yourself on PDA.

I am not excusing his behaviour, I do want to protect my younger two too.

I also do know he is only 8! And a disabled child. A child.

We are only week 2 into a EHCP.
CAMHS have refused to support as he is too complex.
Waiting for next steps from social.
GP hasn't been able to help I'm anyway.
School Nurse and HV services haven't responded at all.

We are paying for private Farm Therapy sessions.

I feel in crisis. My husband is too. Our son could have broken my husband's ankle at bedtime, we are grateful it was my husband that got that attack and not one of the younger two.

@Crumplesock I feel you OP. Our family has been through something very similar DS1 now 14 ASD, extreme levels of anxiety and OCD. Became violent around 13 y old (puberty) with me, his dad, his brother and selfharming as well. Cried all the time in school until he stopped going. Neighbours called social services (they probably thought we abused him with his screaming murder all the time). SS came by and quickly told us we were heroes for dealing with him so calmly. I was screaming and hurting inside ofcourse but stayed calm and cried myself to sleep when the kids were in bed. We knocked on all doors to get some help but the psychiatric team just tried heavy medication that made him even more aggressive. The only thing that helped was Sertraline to calm his anxiety and OCD but it wasn't enough. He finally spent a week in a child psychiatry ward for observation (we waited 6 months before they had a place) and he came out much calmer (without medication, just Sertraline he was already on). He needed to be away from us to get some distance. He's now in SEN education, not violent just verbally aggressive at home towards me when I make him respect rules. Outside of home he's sweet, calm and shy.

If your son is behaving like this at 8 I am very afraid of what will happen next. Before care I would try to get him into psychiatric care for observation so that they can understand him better, eventually try out some medication and give you recommandations as to how to move forward. He's hurting but there is collateral damage to you and his siblings. You have a duty to protect your children. When my Ds was violent I never ever let him be with his brother. It was very complicated but my younger son was with me all the time (in the kitchen when preparing meals etc) because I had to protect him. Your wee ones are getting traumatised by living with their older brother and he is not getting better by staying at home because he needs specialist care. It's urgent. In the meantime can siblings stay with GP? My Mil was a godsend because she provided a safe calm environment for Ds2. It's really really hard and I do know what you're going through. It's hell and sometimes you just ask yourself if you should just jump off a cliff to be free. But you can't when you're a mother so hang in there and tell yourself that things will be better in the future for ALL of you. Sending hugs 💐

I suppose I should also add in that in amongst all this is the grief that we have that our son died, and I know that has also effected our eldest.

Absolutely- if the family make this decision and at times, it’s the right one.
I think it’s unfair for the previous poster to suggest the children need this to happen though, without knowing the family’s full circumstances. I also think it would be a shit thing for the OP to read if this isn’t something she wants or has considered.

Yes she should and no it is not callous when the children are being abused. Hit. Daily. To the extent that they are really really scared. It’s not a situation that can be solved other than the children being separated. They have to live separately - I can’t stress that enough and you should read the many posts on here from the adults who grew up with a violent sibling and how badly it affected them.

HRTFT and this isn’t an area I’m knowledgable about but will say I watched the recent documentary on BBC iplayer (?) and what some parents are going through is unimaginable. I was shocked at the level of physicality and injury some parents and siblings are living with.

I wouldn’t judge anyone in this situation taking this decision. Best of luck to you and what is best for your whole family.

I am so sorry for your loss. Life is not fair and you surely have got your share of problems. I just wish I could do something to help you ❤️. I hope you get therapy as well. We mums often neglect ourselves but please don't.

I've a pda toddler and regulation and boundaries have been our go to . I seen it with my friends son , he rules the roost. My son has to learn that he can't be naughty. There's a big difference between a melt down due to sensory issues or being over whelmed and just bad behaviour. But I'm in a lot of pda groups and I have to agree with you , it's all about pandering. Long term it doesn't work .

Literally couldn’t have put it better…my blood was boiling so much I couldn’t find the words.

I have ASD and ADHD; DS(21) is also ADHD and my whole life had been spent battling people with the same ignorant and judgemental views in one setting or another.

She wants to protect her younger children and to be honest it’s not really about what she wants, it’s about protecting small children from abuse. If the violent child stays in the home the others have to live somewhere else. She is suggesting the older child goes and I would absolutely do the same but if that can’t happen then the younger children have to go and they will be easier to place.

I don't think (and the research agrees with me) that removing demands is going to help.
Every time you remove a demand you make your child's world smaller and smaller and you make him more anxious about, and more likely to react to, new things that weren't a problem before.

OP Contact for disabled children is a really helpful website. They also have a free advice line and fb group.
i hope you find some peace- don’t be fobbed off and as Icedlatte says, be very clear with SS what your limit is and what their obligations are. I’m so sorry you are all going through this.

You need a solicitor. Ideally one that crosses over between EHCP and social care. Someone like Irwin mitchell

Did the LEA instruct an Ed psych report? You need to appeal the EHCP, what support have you put in it

If you get afford it you also need an independent social worker to do you a report. In fact even if you can't afford it you need this to happen

I've got a 20 year old severely autistic son and an 11 year old autistic pda daughter.
Even with the pda child I've had to be boss before friend.
Low demand letting them make the rules doesn't work (even with pda she gets choices but options I've chosen).
All kids need boundaries and routine to thrive.
If you feel he needs to be in care thats your decision but age 8 I couldn't do it.

Our son has taken to doing home workouts, which is absolutely brilliant and I want to encourage a healthy lifestyle but his strength is crazy. I've witnessed him do 20+ pull ups, he can now lift 1.5× his bodyweight in a Deadlift.

Not impressive for an 8 year old. Children are small which is why they can easily do pull ups and lift their own bodyweight. Physical strength doesn't increase proportionally with body weight, which is why the typical adult struggles with pull ups while children find them easy.

I agree with you. I spent the first 8 years of my life terrified that today would be the day my violent sibling would kill me, then the next 8 years wishing today WOULD be the day because I was so convinced it would happen eventually that I just wanted it over with. I'd have chewed my own arm off to have been placed in foster care or any other environment that didn't have me living in constant fear, never knowing what could set him off on his next attack.

Why is an 8 year old lifting weights and so strong.

Personally I would split family up with dad living with 8 year old (a grown man should be able to easily overpower an 8 year old) and mum with the other two kids until child is at least 16, then consider residential settings

“People call me ignorant”

Wow I can’t think why 🤦🏼‍♀️🙄

I suggest you call SOS!Sen or a similar educational support charity helpline for advice re how to use the ehc going forward as a first possibility.

I also suggest you investigate NVR training, which is non violent resistance. Some of it is too direct for a pda child but some of it could be helpful. It seeks to give you more authority in your home - atm it sounds like your son's needs are dominating everyone, which is understandable with pda (my daughter has pda,), but there are things you might be able to do.

Carrie and David Grant have a webinar coming up later this month on eventbrite re child on parent violence which might be of interest to you xx

@Crumplesock

We are only week 2 into a EHCP.
CAMHS have refused to support as he is too complex.
Waiting for next steps from social.
GP hasn't been able to help I'm anyway.
School Nurse and HV services haven't responded at all

You desperately need proper legal advice from a solicitor experienced in SEN and complex medical children. You are being massively failed. Where are you based roughly? Do you claim DLA? (Just thinking about managing costs).

Your son sounds like he is paranoid and potentially delusional. I can’t stress enough this doesn’t sound like ‘simple autism’. The other nuclear option would be to present to hospital and refuse to leave without psychiatric assessment. Time and time again. The severe risk you are all facing warrants this alone.

Do you have the facility to move into 2 properties? Even selling up and renting? I would try to do everything to avoid him being removed. Not because I’m some softy who feels ‘violent children should be prioritised’. But putting a child with the level of disability yours has, who couldn’t even cope with school, in the care system sounds will destroy him.

Low demand is NOT letting them make the rules. It is all about choosing your battles and adapting to your child's capabilities or lack there of. There are golden rules to never be broken like no violence, go to school every day, take a shower in the evening, say please and thank you. It's low demand compared to what I expect of his younger brother who is not disabled. It's adapted to my son's disability and what I can expect of him. If people use it to justify having no rules they have completely misunderstood what low demands are about.

You should read the posts like this @Grapewrath
Those are the ones I am interested in. Not the ones from parents who seem to minimise situations like this. Or that accept that it’s really hard and very unfair on the younger ones but don’t offer a real solution. The younger ones need to be out of that environment. Do you know what it does to you to be beaten daily at the age of one?

Noone ever wants it. I certainly never considered it as an option until social services were talking to me about it because DD had explored the possibility with them. I was fighting toothand nail against it and had a few huge bust ups with DD over it.

It might we'll be what needs to happen. If the risk levels are high enough. The reality is you simply cannot meet the needs of all children in the one home. Some people will solve it by moving out the child with care, some will move out the siblings and some of us will fight to keep both at home risking doing untold harm. DD absolutely needed not to have DS in her home and i will forever beg her forgiveness that I putDS's needs above hers in this. Even if it was ultimately the right choice.

There's never a right time to recognize the problem and the solutions are really only right or wrong by outcome which you have no idea before the fact