To voluntarily put my child into care

[Crumplesock]

We are at the point now where we think we may need to either put our eldest into the care system or seperate and live in 2 seperate homes to keep our children apart for fear that the eldest will seriously harm the younger two children. However, I'm not sure how we will actually finance two seperate homes (even 2 x 1bedroom flats).

Our son is autistic with a PDA profile. We are low demand parenting, and he does not attend school after being excluded and we are following his lead in Home Education. We followed the At Peace Parenting Course (which is amazing and so insightful, if not a little crazy on price!) but she told us we need to radically accept that this is our son's disability, this is part of it and we need to accommodate it. She shared how her family had to live sperately for a while. We are being advised by all the professionals that we are doing all we can for our son's needs and are accommodating and parenting him in line with his disabilities. But I just feel so broken at it.

As our son is getting bigger, his level of aggression is increasing and becoming harder to manage. We attempt to keep the children separated at all times but this is hard when there is only 1 parent at home and all 3 do need to be watched constantly.

Our other two children, and us parents too, are receiving multiple injuries daily.

Our son has taken to doing home workouts, which is absolutely brilliant and I want to encourage a healthy lifestyle but his strength is crazy. I've witnessed him do 20+ pull ups, he can now lift 1.5× his bodyweight in a Deadlift. I spoke to him about this passion of his and he said its so he can always make sure he is the strongest and to make people scared of him.

I know deep down there's a scared boy in there, whose doing this as a reaction to school trauma and being pushed around by school bullies (he had it quite bad). But it also terrifies me at how he is stronger than me and it won't be long before he levels with my husband.

I have spoke to Social Sevices today who has said they'll get a support package and stated that this is Child-on-parent (and sibling) abuse and that they do need to safe guard our other children

I said realistically it’s not as easy as that- not that the child shouldn’t be placed. I was pointing out that residential homes can rarely meet the child’s needs. Not that the OP should just suck it up.
im mystified myself as to why you jumped on my post addressing awful things being said about the OP’s son if you don’t say any of them.

My DD is ASD with a PDA profile and ADHD.
I have come across many parents of ASD, PDA & ADHD children and I'm inclined to agree with you!
I have known parents to sing, whisper, tickle and reason with their children whilst their children are in the full throes of attacking them! I have seen parents who are covered in black and purple bruises!
I have witnessed parents soothing their children whilst their children scream expletives, sink their teeth into their parents flesh and rip chunks of their hair out!
These same parents tend to describe their children as lovely, gentle, caring loving people who bear no responsibility for their outbursts and the parents don't set any expectation for the child to learn to manage their violent responses!
Apparently, it is down to society to be ever more accommodating and understand that this child is a victim of uncontrollable meltdowns!
Yet we must all learn to control ourselves when we may pose a danger to ourselves or others, because the bottom line is if we don't control ourselves, society and law enforcement staff will control our meltdowns for us when we reach Adulthood!
I accept that everyone has different levels of tolerance and some people find it easier to control themselves than others, but controlling your violence is not negotiable!! It has to be done!
This 'blanket understanding of childrens behaviour' method of parenting a SN child has never appealed to me!
I do feel like the odd one out when I'm in the company of other parents.
My DD is an only child and was once described as 'having the most severe behavioural issues that the SEND dept of the council had ever known' and needs extremely high levels of support!* *
I also considered placing DD in care, however, Social Care told me they had nowhere within our county to place DD to meet her needs.
DD was offered a place at a residential school 100 miles away in a separate county, but on reflection, i felt this was not a good option for DD.
Yes, DD has incredibly high levels of anxiety, and yet I have never excused her violent episodes! Violence is absolutely unacceptable, whether that be in the home or out in society!
It took a number of years for the message to sink in and for DD to be able to choose other avenues instead of violence, but we got there eventually and I believe this was in the main part due to my refusal to accept the violence as any kind of coping mechanism!!
When DD was violent, I would physically hold her off, and yes, I have suffered injuries as has my DH!
On one occasion, DH didn't move quickly enough to avoid a hard kick to the genitals when DD was 4 and that resulted in DH vomiting for 1½ hours curled over the toilet, so I know what violence from a child to a parent looks like and yet I have never and will never condone violence!! I will never tell DD I understand that she cannot control her violence!! She HAS to learn to control it, because the world won't tolerate it, no matter what diagnosis you have!!
Yes, DD gets frustrated, she loses her temper, but violence is never an acceptable response to her overwhelming feelings!
Yes, DD needs control but violence is never an acceptable way to gain control!
For the parents who feel they cannot teach their child to control their violence, who do you think will teach them? What do you think the consequences to your child will be when they are adults? Do you honestly believe other adults are going to understand when your adult child kicks 7 shades of shit out of them that they should respond with kindness?
DD is almost 18 now and is safe to be around.
Society at large won't learn to tolerate violence.
Society at large won't learn to understand the reasons someone is violent and then excuse them.
It's high time parents woke up to the fact that very few people are invested enough in your children to understand why they are violent. It's enough that they are violent and the majority of people who come across your violent adult child will manage this by removing themselves from the violent persons space, which at best, will leave the violent person extremely isolated, not understood. At worst, in a secure unit of some description, possibly on a concoction of drugs to ensure the safety of other people.
I fought to teach DD to control herself so that society doesn't have to control her!

Huge sympathy to you, OP. As a mother, I can imagine this must be such an agonising decision to have to make. But as someone grew up with a violent older brother, I think the best thing would be to have your eldest attend a residential school if possible.

My brother was horrible to be around, and his physical violence and the resulting fear became just a part of the daily routine. It was completely normal to be constantly walking on eggshells, and permanently braced for the next bout of physical violence.

I expect my parents were fearful of sending him to live elsewhere, because they were worried he’d be unhappy. And perhaps he would have been. But he was already deeply unhappy living at home with us, so they may as well have sent him. Then at least I wouldn’t have been unhappy with him.

Now, in our forties, my brother and I have no contact at all. I sometimes wonder if we would have been able to salvage some form of relationship if he’d resided elsewhere as a youngster, so I wouldn’t have had such extensive negative experiences at his hands. My memories of him are not happy ones.

Why would a specialist residential unit not be able to meet a child’s needs? They will have trained staff there who will do exactly that. Whether it’s possible to get a place is a different question but yes of course trained childcare workers can meet children’s needs, often more effectively than their parents.

And I assumed you were talking to me as you were replying to my post.

Another example I have known of is a little boy who has ASD, PDA and ADHD and was incredibly violent to his mother. He was extremely violent from when he was a toddler. His mother was fearful of her son. She claimed trauma, ASD, PDA and ADHD was responsible for his violence and dealt with him by desperately trying to understand him. She would gently blow on his face while he rained blows down on her, she would sing to him and whisper in his ear. She explained that she would cry most nights from the mental and physical torture!
She split from DH when their son was 8 and when her son was 13, he went to live with his father who doesn't tolerate violence and is not frightened of him. This boy has come on in leaps and bounds and can now reliably go out in public to restaurants and parks.
His father is firm but fair and absolutely won't tolerate violence at all and yet this boy adores his father and apparently views his mother with contempt! He describes his mother as weak and continues to be violent to her when he sees her.
I know this because DD and this boy go to the same SN activity where both his mother and father take turns to accompany him!
His mother feels she has treated him so gently, defended him at all costs and been so understanding that she is completely blindsided by her sons behaviour towards her. She doesn't understand it at all!

What type of medication helped? My dd has pda traits. She is OK right now but she wasn't 12 months ago.

The problem with PDA and special schools is that universally I have found its the number 1 reason for refusing a place. Its really hard if not impossible to get school to acknowledge that touching dd triggers her, not listening to her ( please don't put me next to X I'm feeling overwhelmed- pair her up with x) even the most simple things they can't accommodate.

It's really hard. Luckily dd is OK right now. I know how hideous it can get and I really feel for OP. Its impossible to understand. If it was your partner people would be screaming to get away. But it's so much more complex with a child.

They are four and one!

Op, is your son on medication?

Send the other two to school and that will help loads

^

Aye it will

There will be different specialist residential schools ,when my friend reached crisis with her child after his extremely exoensive that LA had agreed to pay for special school admitted theu couldn't meet his needs ,it waa agreed that a residential school waa the best option and the LA agreed to fund the fees, his profile was sent to all the residential schools in the UK that were thought appropriate for him one eventually agreed it could meet his needs, but the whole process took over a year and the school is,a six hour drive away ,he's doing brilliantly but it's not a simple process.

@Grapewrath
Your right Putting a child into care sometimes isn't the solution either despite appearences. The right package of care and education, whatever that looks like, Can make the world of difference. Unfortunately it has to get to the point where none can cope before that happens

But if we buy into the nonsense social services pedal we do half the job for them. I also think most the time the reason they don't step up is that they are not often properly held to account. No-one knows their rights properly until they have actually had to evoke them, and usually when you're at point of crisis your not in a fit state to do so.

In my case social services absolutely have stepped up to their responsibilities and continue to do so. Although this initially took DS nearly killing me twice before I understood my rights, and solicitors threatening them with judicial review if they withdrew support😁😁😁😁 (I was 48 hours from walking out and having documented panic attacks). Well see how transition into adult care treats us, I am still busy ensuring we document risk and harm in every capacity we can.

DS going into care would not have been the right solution and personally I don't think it is always the right solution. Ds' situation was different from the OPs though.

Why would he be?

It’s potentially dangerous as well.
It’s not necessary to be deadlifting at 8 to specifically want to hurt people- ( thinks of the younger siblings being bodily lifted and thrown down)
As to animals and not hurting them- If child can rein themselves in enough not to hurt an animal, then surely they’d have the same self control not to hurt a four year old sibling- or a one year old.

It was Sertraline to manage the anxiety. Once the anxiety was managed he was able to access other therapies and to put strategies in place.

A sensory integration specialist OP was the key therapy that helped.

I'm sorry OP this sounds such a difficult situation. It sounds unsustainable for you and your partner, your son and your younger children. Something has to change but I honestly don't know what will work best for you and what the options are. I think be firm and honest with social work, sadly you might have to tell them multiple times you are at breaking point and need help before you are truly heard. I would caution though that I don't think you living separately is sustainable either, not just money wise, but because it'll be so hard just one person dealing with your son 24 hours a day and as he's violent towards you and your partner there is also a safety risk there. I hope you manage to find a solution that is the best possible for you all and you find peace for whatever difficult decisions you have to make.

I truly think 8 is a tough age. My son is 15 now and at age 8 I had no hope in life, completely broken and an education system that was failing us, or we were failing it. But in part riding the storm and also in finding a suitable school, life very slowly turned around and now life is completely different and my son is a very different person, although some scars from the terrible school incidents are still there if pushed.

My son also reacted to any expectation put on him so we learnt to do things/talk etc without expectation. It was hard because if I say what colour is that, I have an expectation that it’s red. But I learnt to clear my mind like on a yoga/mediating way and that reduced the expectations I had. Sounds very happy clapping but very slowly it did work. I’m also a more peaceful person for it.

Good luck and best wishes, it is a long, hard slog but I hope you look back in a few years and be amazed at how far you have come.

Why would he be?

^

Why would he not? He fits the profile completely?

You clearly don’t know this system.
Soecialist provision is few and far between and even specialist provisions are very specific in the profile of the child they can manage and have to factor in the needs of the other children they care for. Even an autism specific unit may not cater for a PDA profile. A unit for children who are stressing may not place a child with ASC as they may be more set up for children with trauma. It can take literally years to place a child and to find provision that meets need, has space and the LA will fund . Even then, placements often break down . They can’t just ‘go into care’.

Well then the younger kids will have to go into care won’t they? Because it’s utterly negligent towards them to pretend that this will improve and that they can stay in the same house as their brother. Hopefully they will be understanding when they’re older but I doubt it.

i totally agree. I’ve had to fight for a care needs assessment for my son who is an adukt but still needs my support at every level. Social care don’t seem to understand that I want to be his Mum for the rest of his life, not his carer.
All his life he had had fuck all support and when I did finally put my foot down all I got was ‘you’re going a great job with him’. Yes I am but it’s taking all of my resources and to the detriment of my other kids.
It’s exhausting and SS try to make you feel like a shit parent for wanting support.
Good luck to your family- I see you

They won’t take the OPs other children into care. They will risk assess, safety plan and put a package of support in place to minimise risk while they find a suitable placement for DS. What that looks like will very much depends on the needs of the family and what support networks are available.
Even suggesting the other kids should go into care is really unhelpful to the OP and damaging. This is why the OP should seek support from the SEN community instead of from people who have no idea what they’re talking about

I really, really feel for you OP.

My eldest is autistic with demand avoidance (and gifted level IQ). Parenting him is extremely difficult. Some opinions on this thread are as unsurprising as they are disgusting. DH and I parent much, much harder than any of our friends with neurotypical kids. There is literally no let up - boundaries have to be water tight but held in a way that gives autonomy and feels collaborative. It’s exhausting. I certainly don’t think ‘the sun shines out of him” or whatever some ignorant person said earlier. I am aware he is highly stung, energy sapping and generally not someone who is going to attract lots of people in life.

I absolutely agree with others that your son desperately needs a full CAMHs assessment and an ADHD assessment plus medication. Stimulants, antidepressants plus potentially antipsychotics if felt necessary. This sounds more than autism, even in burnout. Do finances stretch to doing any/all of this privately?

I would look at living separately. I completely agree with others that if he is away from the home environment it should be in a residential setting as opposed to care. But I think trialling living individually with a parent first and an extended period of medication and no school is worth it. As you likely well know, PDA is largely driven by anxiety and PDAers need lots of coregulation from trusted adults. I struggle to imagine the care sector giving this.

Inbox open if you want to chat.

Then poor children. I’d never forgive my mother for prioritising a violent sibling over a defenceless one year old.
Also you don’t know that they wouldn’t remove them, they’ve identified it as abuse, and OP could let them go into foster care under s 20.
I think it’s good that its not in the SEN section because it doesn’t sound from many of the posters on here like anyone would stand up for the younger kids, the ones being abused.

Put him in care. He be safe and your 1 and 4 year old be safe as would your dh and you. Hard decision but made with love.

I don’t have any advice but you sound like an amazing parent. Your situation sounds incredibly difficult, but you speak with such compassion and understanding. I hope you find a solution that works for you and your family.