To voluntarily put my child into care

[Crumplesock]

We are at the point now where we think we may need to either put our eldest into the care system or seperate and live in 2 seperate homes to keep our children apart for fear that the eldest will seriously harm the younger two children. However, I'm not sure how we will actually finance two seperate homes (even 2 x 1bedroom flats).

Our son is autistic with a PDA profile. We are low demand parenting, and he does not attend school after being excluded and we are following his lead in Home Education. We followed the At Peace Parenting Course (which is amazing and so insightful, if not a little crazy on price!) but she told us we need to radically accept that this is our son's disability, this is part of it and we need to accommodate it. She shared how her family had to live sperately for a while. We are being advised by all the professionals that we are doing all we can for our son's needs and are accommodating and parenting him in line with his disabilities. But I just feel so broken at it.

As our son is getting bigger, his level of aggression is increasing and becoming harder to manage. We attempt to keep the children separated at all times but this is hard when there is only 1 parent at home and all 3 do need to be watched constantly.

Our other two children, and us parents too, are receiving multiple injuries daily.

Our son has taken to doing home workouts, which is absolutely brilliant and I want to encourage a healthy lifestyle but his strength is crazy. I've witnessed him do 20+ pull ups, he can now lift 1.5× his bodyweight in a Deadlift. I spoke to him about this passion of his and he said its so he can always make sure he is the strongest and to make people scared of him.

I know deep down there's a scared boy in there, whose doing this as a reaction to school trauma and being pushed around by school bullies (he had it quite bad). But it also terrifies me at how he is stronger than me and it won't be long before he levels with my husband.

I have spoke to Social Sevices today who has said they'll get a support package and stated that this is Child-on-parent (and sibling) abuse and that they do need to safe guard our other children

It is still relatively rare for a child to have an actual PDA diagnosis because many Trusts won't diagnose it. Often PDA traits are seen when the child is so traumatised they are in flight or fight mode because at this stage they can't deal with any demand.

@Crumplesock

Could he be referred to Great Ormond Street, OP?

https://www.gosh.nhs.uk/wards-and-departments/departments/clinical-specialties/department-child-and-adolescent-mental-health-dcamh/

In the circumstances, he may even be accepted for in-patient care.

https://www.gosh.nhs.uk/wards-and-departments/departments/clinical-specialties/department-child-and-adolescent-mental-health-dcamh/mildred-creak-unit-mcu/referrals-mildred-creak-unit/

My friend's daughter has 2 little sisters who she gets along with very well

If you read my other posts, oyu will see that i am skeptical PDA is the main issue here, but yes in this case the 2 young children need to be put first

Mmm hmm and what about his siblings who are being injured daily?

I'm sorry this is so challenging OP .

I have read your posts but not everyone else's. Some things stand out. AIBU is the best place to get advice. You might consider asking MNHQ to move this to one of the SEND parenting boards where many more respondents will have relevant lived experience and a realistic view of your options.

A SW who describes a traumatised autistic 8 year old child as an 'abuser' does not sound like a sufficiently knowledgeable person to take advice from. All members of your how household require compassion. Are you are talking to a specialist SW from the LA's Child Disability Team or a generalist child protection SW? Have they undertaken an assessment of needs yet (including yours as a carer)?

What specialist psychology input have you had? Is there a local neurodisability service supporting your management of the situation? If you are struggling to access expert services, given the stakes, personally I would move heaven and earth to find a) clinical psychologist with expertise in neurodevelopmental conditions who can support you and talk about possible developmental trajectories and b) and a social worker with expertise in disabled children exhibiting distressed/challenging behaviours. If you have the ability to pay to see genuinely expert people privately/independently, it's worth doing in order to get a really good understanding of your options and the pros and cons of possible choices.

Yvonne Newbold's Facebook group may be helpful.

The thing about this situation is your child's developmental capacity will transform over the next few years.

Sorry - that should obviously have read 'AIBU is not the best place to get advice'.

Hi there. I am an adopter and know several families where it has been impossible for one child to stay at home due to the sort of situation you describe.

8 is really young for it to kick in but it does sound serious. My younger daughter has PDA and I know how tricky it is.

But your local authority should be MUCH more helpful here. They should not be leaving it to you to separate your family. And they have a safeguarding responsibility to your other children. So they do need to act. It is better for them to step in - if you ask for him to go into care they could charge you.

Good luck x

"Is it safe to be doing pull ups and deadlifts at that age?"

No problem at all. Grabbing on to a bar and pulling yourself up is not dangerous. Lifting a weight up from the ground (with proper technique) is not dangerous.

What is concerning though is the reason for doing it:

"...he said its so he can always make sure he is the strongest and to make people scared of him."

This seems a really good option.

Agree with @BinkaCurse boundaries are key. If possible, get professional help with this as it is not easy in the heat of the moment

There needs to be robust safeguarding measures implemented here to protect the younger siblings in the home.
The 8 year olds disability makes him unsafe and puts them at risk, this is not in question. That still does not make the 8 year old a sociopath.
if you had any idea about this subject and situation you would understand that demonising the disabled child does not benefit or safeguard his siblings in any way.

We had to make the decision to send our ASD teen to a residential setting for the same reason and it was totally the best decision for them and for the younger siblings.

it does involve agreeing to a voluntary care order but that doesn’t mean you don’t still have shared PR or that you can never see them. We visited out child regularly and took them out for the day and even to stay overnight with us from time to time. Their relationship with their siblings has improved enormously and they actually love their new environment and are much happier and settled there.

it’s a tough decision to make. I shed a lot of tears over it but it might turn out to be transformative for you all and make your son happier than he currently is too because his environment is being completely controlled to meet his needs which just isn’t possible at home.

My younger sister was jealous of my youngest sister so took every possible opportunity to try to hurt her. She was 4 years younger than her. My mother took every possible opportunity to leave us three alone whilst she was at work, so I had to stop my psychotic sister killing my youngest sister. I was 10. Psychotic sister was 8 and youngest sister was 4. I suffered from horrific injuries and now have cPTSD, flashbacks, panic attacks, catastrophically low self esteem and a pathological people pleasing complex.

I would have given anything for my psychotic sister to be moved away from me to give me a chance at a normal childhood instead of being viciously attacked on a daily basis.

I never said he was a sociopath. You can’t diagnose something like that at his age anyway. I said he is definitely not gentle and that is because he is violent on a daily basis and it doesn’t help anyone to try to minimise that.
So these “robust safeguarding measures” what actually are they? Because it’s very obvious that they cannot continue to live in the same household without the younger two continuing to be hurt or being scared of being hurt. Being driven around all evening or going to the supermarket obviously isn’t a good safeguarding measure. They need and deserve to live somewhere safe free from violence. If it was an adult battering them (whether or not that adult had SEN) we’d remove them in a heartbeat. To a 4 year old it’s still someone much bigger and stronger than him hurting him daily. Not to mention the poor one year old - just a baby, being injured.
If this violent child cannot be removed then the siblings should be.

Sorry not read everyone else’s replies.

Does he have an EHCP?
I would really encourage you to look at special schools.

I worked in one and they are the most amazing places (the ones I know of anyway) and they provide a lot of structure and routine that a home often can’t.
They also learn from their peers and learn how to behave in an appropriate way.
They also make friends and have fun.

9/10 this is absolutely the best thing for them.
I’m not going to lie, sometimes it makes them worse as they mask at school and then release it all at home but there’s usually a way to overcome this.

If his issues stem from school then actually going back to a safe school environment may be really beneficial for him too, to deal with that trauma.

I would definitely look into fitness clubs and speak to the instructor about your son’s issues.
Some of these instructors are incredible with young kids and will be a positive role model.
It will also give him that social side of it and he’ll be able to learn how to behave from him peers.
I think it’s great he’s already into this and I would use this to my advantage.

Worst comes to worst I would consider going on the council list and trying to get a place.
You’ll technically be being a bit underhanded by saying you’ve separated but I don’t think any of us would judge you for it.
It may be that say dad and him move into a flat near by and visit on weekends or something until you can get more help.

If you need to put him in care for his safety and the safety of his siblings, then that’s absolutely what I’d do.

I’m not sure why you thought I was addressing you? I was addressing the comments made towards the OPs son in the thread.
Also, please do point out where I said that the 8 year old shouldn’t be placed elsewhere? In terms of safeguarding, without knowing all of the family circumstances non of us are qualified to say what that should look like. It may look like the disabled child living elsewhere but that isn’t the point.
Regardless of next steps which may very well involve looking at alternatives, I simply stated that the OP should not be reading such ignorant and damning things about her disabled child

This type of comments make me so so angry. This is part of how social services get away with not providing support.

No you can't just put your child into care. However social services have a legal responsibility to safeguard other children (and caregivers) in the house.

Social services are very reluctant to do this and don’t have capacity for it
As a parent it is not my responsibility as to how social services fulfil their legal responsibilities. If there is a documented risk, and the other inhabitants are coming to documented harm and the parent no longer feels able to care without a significant risk of documented harm social services are failing their responsibilities.

reality ‘put him into care’ advice comes from people who don’t really understand the system or how it works.
Sometimes it come from those of us who have had to turn round to social services and say "I am in danger, my other children are in danger. It is not my problem how you fulfil your legal responsibilities, but I will hold you to account through the courts if you do not and we end up with further injuries (either physical or mental) or worse killed." DS has been on the brink of going into care on several occasions. Sometimes it's been down to 24 hour count down. Thankfully we have always come up a solution with social services, but not without the help of specialist solicitors.

However I have had to document my injuries, mentally and physically, fully and honestly. I am still receiving treatment I frequently end up back in counselling. This is all documented and frequently shared by me with social services. Our care package is partially based on the documented harm to me which can be hard to stomach.

If you can’t manage your son, how do you expect him to cope in a residential home?
Carers in a residential care home go home. Their home is safe. They have respite from risk. The carer home has a responsibility to safeguard their staff which includes appropriate staff ratios and training. Some children do do better in a residential setting. No not all, but even then sometimes it's the least bad option. No-one should feel bad if actually they have to take the least bad option.

Another phrase social services trot out "other people have a far higher risk profile and less care". I now reply "it is not my problem the risk other people are or aren't willing to accept. Nor is it my problem if other people are happy to accept social services shirking their legal responsibilities. I'm not prepared to accept being hurt or accidentally killed by my child"

Social services do often need reminding their legal responsibilities

@Kalalily

Thank you for agreeing, I really thought I’d get a bollocking.

Also - from working in a school, I’ve seen some really extreme behaviours turned by boundaries.

And the children concerned seem almost grateful to have the security of those boundaries.

Of course every child is different, but my DC now though still defiant : but it’s much more controllable. What DC is able to do is channel it creatively, so will tend to reject rules for art/music but will do some amazing self initiated and unique creations.

There are SO many families needing support and so few resources - and I don’t think all the rights and wrongs and psychology behind ‘saying the right thing’ can work for busy families. Plus I think it leads to demolishing a parents confidence if they think they are not doing it quite right, and can’t see improvements in their child’s behaviour.

No, it isn’t. Please don’t make comments like that without knowledge.

Ooh idk where I got that from: maybe where you said this: Realistically you can’t just put your child into care. Social services are very reluctant to do this and don’t have capacity for it. If you can’t manage your son, how do you expect him to cope in a residential home?
but yes how stupid of me to interpret that as you saying the 8 year old should not be put in care.

And I’m also mystified as to why I thought you were addressing me when you were {checks notes} replying to my post.

Best wishes @Kalalily Hoping it works out for you and your family. You are addressing it now which is a huge plus. In my case I was gaslighted years despite it being blazingly obvious there was an issue and that is hard to get over.

What a pile of dangerous bollocks. And I don’t see how it’s in any way helpful to the op.

I absolutely agree with everything you’ve said.
Unfortuntely SS rarely step up to their responsibilities in these situations. I was pointing out that putting a child into care isn’t as easy as a lot of the posters think. Sadly there are lots of hoops to jump through first, as many will attest to.
Even when you are clear with social services about your family’s needs and their obligations, they do not simply just remove children, as you found in your desperate situation.
Im very sorry to hear what you went through and I hope you get more support.
I too have a disabled teenager and am fighting the fight- these kids are not easy to place or to get support for. That’s what I meant- I’m sorry if I offended you as it absolutely wasn’t my intention.

You are in an impossible situation OP, having to choose between your children. I hope it all works out best for the 5 of you