To voluntarily put my child into care

[Crumplesock]

We are at the point now where we think we may need to either put our eldest into the care system or seperate and live in 2 seperate homes to keep our children apart for fear that the eldest will seriously harm the younger two children. However, I'm not sure how we will actually finance two seperate homes (even 2 x 1bedroom flats).

Our son is autistic with a PDA profile. We are low demand parenting, and he does not attend school after being excluded and we are following his lead in Home Education. We followed the At Peace Parenting Course (which is amazing and so insightful, if not a little crazy on price!) but she told us we need to radically accept that this is our son's disability, this is part of it and we need to accommodate it. She shared how her family had to live sperately for a while. We are being advised by all the professionals that we are doing all we can for our son's needs and are accommodating and parenting him in line with his disabilities. But I just feel so broken at it.

As our son is getting bigger, his level of aggression is increasing and becoming harder to manage. We attempt to keep the children separated at all times but this is hard when there is only 1 parent at home and all 3 do need to be watched constantly.

Our other two children, and us parents too, are receiving multiple injuries daily.

Our son has taken to doing home workouts, which is absolutely brilliant and I want to encourage a healthy lifestyle but his strength is crazy. I've witnessed him do 20+ pull ups, he can now lift 1.5× his bodyweight in a Deadlift. I spoke to him about this passion of his and he said its so he can always make sure he is the strongest and to make people scared of him.

I know deep down there's a scared boy in there, whose doing this as a reaction to school trauma and being pushed around by school bullies (he had it quite bad). But it also terrifies me at how he is stronger than me and it won't be long before he levels with my husband.

I have spoke to Social Sevices today who has said they'll get a support package and stated that this is Child-on-parent (and sibling) abuse and that they do need to safe guard our other children

Residential Care was a good result for my sister, when my parents finally gave in and accepted it. While she was at home we all suffered, my stuff destroyed, me with cuts, parents with bruises. Very little time for me, I feel parents raised two single kids.
When in the home sister thrived, she helped others, she was not automatically the daft one in the room.

This is so sad.
Your eldest need processional care and I support that takes place.
He should be placed away from the other 2 children.

It doesn’t really matter whether he’s evil or traumatised or whatever but as things are it is not safe for the younger two to live with him. They are being abused by him and the four year old is scared. He is FOUR and talking about being scared about being in his HOME. He has the right to be safe and it matters not one jot whether his brother loves animals or not or whether him putting glue in a water bottle was a trauma reaction. The younger kids need to be safe NOW. If nobody is prepared to place the elder one in care then the younger two will have to be. Is there a family member who can take them?

I’m not twisting your words, that’s exactly what you said. Your posts are vile and ignorant in the extreme.

He’s not a gentle child op. He wants to do weights to be stronger so people are scared of him. He hurts his family. He went around putting glue into classmates water bottles to try and poison them. That is intentionally choosing to harm other children. It was thought out and it was dangerous. It’s horrible to hear that your poor 4 year old is so terrified of being in his own home. I think it does sound like your 8 year old should be in care to protect the younger children but unfortunately I’m not sure how easy that will be.

I have direct experience of this- my (at the time 5yo) was voluntarily given up by myself to a foster placement due to me being unable to manage his needs at home, where I had a sibling 2 years older and was single parenting whilst trying to work FT in a very demanding role.

He was diagnosed autistic at 3yo (very swiftly, 3 months from referral to Consultant appt where they gave the diagnosis) but things were already disintegrating at home and nursery.
My older child's life had come to a standstill, everything revolved around their sibling's needs, and it was just impossible. I barely slept, social care were hopeless and it came to a head when I had to send my older child to live with his father to protect him, and I ran my car off the motorway with my younger child as I was so overwrought with everything.

I begged and begged for help, even attending A&E in crisis with both children in tow and reaching out at every opportunity. I really laid it on the line with Social Care and now my 7yo (birthday today) has been in his foster placement since Jan 2023 and is doing really well. His brother sees him every 3 months, and I am seeing him myself for the first time this December since he left. I found it all immensely stressful at the time, and still live with the "bereavement" of it every day, but am getting through it knowing that everyone is happier and safer as a result.

I actually work in Children's Services within the NHS- I see families every day clearly struggling immensely with their child's ongoing condition etc and the fear factor of Social Care intervention is real but people clearly are unable to cope and at some points make this visibly clear. I don't believe it is a sign of weakness to access help like this but I do believe there is a significant stigma surrounding it which should be dispelled.
It is your choice, nobody else's. Make the right decision for yourself and your family.

I hate to say it but the other consideration is that given autism is highly genetic there is a good chance one or more of your younger children are also autistic.

My oldest child was very obviously autistic from quite a young age even though nor diagnosed until primary school. My younger one I was certain wasn't. Oops. When I did a post diagnosis autism course most of the parents had kids either 7-9 or 12-14. Which roughly correlates in our area to starting a new school, reassign there are issues you hadn't realised and waiting for assessment.

Yeah I mean you cannot on any level describe a child who inflicts “multiple injuries daily” on his family members as gentle and by doing so you are helping absolutely nobody. He is very very violent. It’s not his fault but it is who he is - not a gentle soul.

I've never met a PDA parent who disciplines any of the behaviour. The absolute sun shines out of their kid no matter what. They also seem to do well as an only child as all of the parental energy goes into them. They make sure of it.

I fear for the younger siblings. A choice needs to be made or hopefully made on the parents behalf.

I know an adoptive family where the eldest has been violent, angry and verbally abusive in the home. They have ploughed through it and things seem a little better now he is 17. However, it has left a trail of mental health issues behind with his siblings. They have basically been sacrificed for his needs. Their parents are amazing, but I'm not sure if even they know how much the other children's childhoods have been dominated and shaped by the eldest. Removing him from.the family home would have compounded his feelings of rejection and anger which would have made things worse. I'm so sorry there aren't any easy answers.
However, to be more constructive...
I read a article in the telegraph I think a few years ago where a sibling was removed to safe foster care, but the family remained in tact but living separately. It was a tragic, but positive story and offered an interesting insight into how one family had managed through a separation of sorts. It sounds like you are doing the right thing by engaging with social workers, so we'll done. Approach the future with an open mind, so that even if he needs to live somewhere else, he can still be integrated and part of your family.
I wish you all the eey best, OP.

Usually when children are so complex they live in a home on their won( as in no other children) with 2 to 1 adults support workers 24/7.
I have seen this when I worked in safeguarding arena

Realistically you can’t just put your child into care. Social services are very reluctant to do this and don’t have capacity for it. If you can’t manage your son, how do you expect him to cope in a residential home?
I say this without judgement and I fully appreciate your position but in reality ‘put him into care’ advice comes from people who don’t really understand the system or how it works.
SS do need to step up and offer you more support and yes, if appropriate try and place him if you can’t meet his needs but this is a long and winding road. It’s not a case of packing him up and sending him on his way.
Many parents of adult children with disabilities are begging for help for their child to live elsewhere and it’s not forthcoming. Even more complex with an 8 year old

Is he PDA or ODD as there is a difference.. does he make eye contact for example

Wanted to say as well, my son is actually on the Adoption Pathway as well, so that he has that care protection until he is an adult.

People call me ignorant, and thats what i used to believe.

Bu let me, the village idiot, teach you that PDA is not just thinking the sun shines out your kids arses, it is a horrible horrible condition. My friends daughter has it and she gets so scared when shes expected to do things out her comfort zone, she hurts herself, makes herself throw up...she still gets told off when shes naughty, but shes a very polite friendly little girl who would never hurt a fly.

PDA is ODD with autism.

God almighty, so much ignorance on this thread.

I'm really sorry, OP, I haven't read the full thread and it's quite likely others have suggested it but:

• I'd consider moving this to the SEND board because parents who haven't managed this level of autism/PDA will not understand what it's like, how it manifests or why strictness, boundaries and discipline will not work;
• Similarly, not everyone will understand that this is a situation in which it's not appropriate to sort your kids into goodies and baddies or that your PDA son is behaving in this way because of anxiety and distress, not because he likes being terrible
• do you have an EHC Plan?

Good luck, OP. I hope you can find a way through it. It's good that social services are onside in terms of recognising that support is needed.

My friends son has been diagnosed as ADHD with a PDA profile, no autism diagnosis though

I'm really sorry for your family's experience, but I agree with others on here with their concern for his siblings.

Whilst his feelings looking at the crab may be a ray of light you , they need to be taken in context with other behaviours.

It's true that cruelty to animals is not a good sign, but being affectionate or nice towards animals is not a sign that they will be decent people all round. Some people who really like animals don't extend that decent behaviour towards humans. Some horrible people in history have had pets.

He's only 8, and still has time to develop, but the real test of someone's character is not how they behave when all it well and they're getting their own way. It's their reactions and behaviour when they don't get their way that matters.

Also some of the replies about your son being manipulative, sociopath and needing to be in an institution are fucking wild. As well as the comments about your parenting.
OP please find an online community of other SEN parents who actually understand what it’s like to have a child with a disability and how that presents. He’s an 8 year old little boy with a disability and associated behaviours, not a monster. I’m sorry you had to read those things about your son

Nope. ODD is a recognised mental health diagnosis, often linked with ADHD. Help with ADHD symptoms frequently resolves ODD behaviours. PDA is a developmental disorder which is considered as distinct from autism but falls within the spectrum.

Hence them doing well as an only. It is a horrible condition that completely dominates households. Young kids need protecting from it.

Or do you think it's ok that 2 young children are being dragged all over on an evening to protect them from their brother?

@Crumplesock

I will get flamed for this and I’m sorry if this is not helpful.

My eldest DC - when younger was an absolute nightmare. Hitting me, biting, scratching, screaming, tantrums, running away, the most awful meltdowns.

I started the process of diagnosis through school.

DC also had a friend of similar age with similar behaviour.

I’m afraid I completely rejected the gentle parenting and went for very firm boundaries. I also had to come up with some ways to enforce those boundaries. I had a room full of cushions and nothing dangerous, I needed to be physically strong - and I’d lift, place gently in the room and close door until tantrum was over. I’d always insist on a sorry.

It took a good few years, but DC is mostly fine now.

My friend - however went for the gentle parenting. Her DC is now out of school and diagnosed with ASD, ADHD and PDA.

I’m afraid this has taught me that boundaries are key. The parent needs to have the upper hand, and be ‘calling the shots’ AND to be confident.
My DC absolutely needed the boundaries and feels secure in those boundaries.

Except this approach is not fashionable, and I’m know I’ll be crucified for saying it.

It’s just my thoughts, so please ignore if not helpful.

Has medication for the aggressiveness under the care of a specialist paediatrician or psychiatrist been trialled? It was an absolute game changer for us when my DS with ASD and oppositional defiant disorder was about ten.

We then moved onto psychology therapy as well and he has been under her care for years now and had developed emotional literacy that gave him the language he needed to stop the aggression. He is 18 now and made it all the way through school, something I thought back then would never happen. It was an awful time at age 8 and I understand why you are considering all options.
My DD still remembers how hard it was for her, having to live with it. Her relationship with him has improved but they will never be close I think.