To think public sector pensions should be slashed?

[Monwmum]

I'm probably going to be slated for even suggesting it....but in the private sector, high percentage final salary pensions were phased out in the early 2000s because they are a money pit and unsustainable. They were continued in the public sector as a sweetener because (apparently) public sector jobs were lower paid.

This simply isn't the case anymore. After years of frozen pay or meagre 1 or 2% pay increases in much of the private sector versus mainly regular inflation based pay increases in the public sector, this gap has been reduced if not closed completely. However, public sector pensions are still getting contributions of the high 20% figures while private sector pensions range from 4% -10%.

Quite a difference! Am I being unreasonable to say this would be a good place to start saving some of our tax money? And before people start saying there would be outrage just remember this was done to every private sector employee in the early 2000s so it can be done.

There is some naive understanding. Final pension schemes no longer exist but when they did it didn't mean that the recipient retires on their final income.

Plus there is a widows pension but there is no pot to be inherited. You are guaranteed a pension for life but your pension dies with you regardless of how much you have paid in. All of it not a taxable amount.

But people live so long -that wasn’t counted in when the pension system was set up.
How can you pay out for 30 years No way have people paid in enough.

This.

And I don't know where OP is getting their figures from but in the 10 years I've been in public sector I've not had one pay award that's been anywhere near inflation- mostly more like the 1-2% values that OP is quoting for private sector. Thats why there's been a lot of striking over pay lately- decades of real-term decreases. Meanwhile my DH, same specialism but private sector, has been getting much better, consistent pay rises due to skills shortages and more flexible pay policies.

I reckon I could increase my earnings by up to 50% by moving to private sector. But I value lower contracted hours, having flexi time, more days of annual leave and the pension, so I've done my sums and committed. If my pension was slashed, those sums wouldn't make sense any more. I'm in a specialism where there's a chronic shortage of staff and people don't apply to join because of the low salaries (job ads now flag benefits to try to lure people in). Our service would fall apart if the benefits were eroded too.

You can't slash pensions that people have worked for. That would be breach of contract.

My LGPS will be worth about £15k annually when I retire in about 25 years…NMW job. 40 years service 🤷‍♀️

Remember public sector employees often put in a higher contribution themselves and for others it is simply part of the package eg military is non contributory, you are welcome to apply to put your life at risk! I don't think anyone is doing it for the pension

I work in a public sector role. Police. I pay over 500 a month into my pension which shocks some people when they tell me how lucky I am to have a good pension.
Public sectors ( the ones I know) get no bonus payments, little progression or training opportunities, certainly no other perks. Having spent a few years looking into the private sector, it's much more lucrative. So many police are leaving for private sector work. I'm not sure what paper you read but public sectors don't get payrises the same as private. My now private sector colleagues laugh at me as they take their bonus every year and get private heath care

I think she’s just making them up. I don’t know about other areas of the private sector but it’s fairly well known that the NHS staff have had a significant pay cut over the last decade. A 1-2% pay rise above inflation would be more than welcome (but not enough).

And I don't know where OP is getting their figures from but in the 10 years I've been in public sector I've not had one pay award that's been anywhere near inflation- mostly more like the 1-2% values that OP is quoting for private sector. Thats why there's been a lot of striking over pay lately- decades of real-term decreases. Meanwhile my DH, same specialism but private sector, has been getting much better, consistent pay rises due to skills shortages and more flexible pay policies.

I'm old enough to remember the heady days of Gordon Brown as chancellor when we were told we couldn't have pay rises in line with inflation as inflation was higher than the Bank of England target and public sector pay was an important tool in controlling inflation.

Of course, when inflation was low we enjoyed pay freezes, pension downgrades and austerity.

I did nearly 40 years. I deal with members of the public every day. Every day I had people shouting, I had to manage the expectations of very unreasonable people. It was a stressful job because I was dealing with people who were stressed themselves. And every few weeks I was on call out of hours. So I could be called at 2 a.m by a homeless person.
I never earned a huge salary and pay increases were really not high.
My brother in law, could not believe how little I was paid, considering the amount of responsibility and stress. He earned far more in the private sector for a job that really was a doddle. His words not mine.
I actually loved my job, when I could assist someone it was great. But it took its toll.
And then I'm told that after all that, having paid in for nearly 40 years I don't deserve the pension that I contributed towards, on the understanding that I didn't earn a huge amount in those 40 years. That was the deal.
I'm sorry if others don't get great pensions, but the answer is to do something so all working people can have a decent retirement.

They have been. A public sector pension now is nothing like 30 years ago (or even 10)

for balance, not all private sector payrises are brilliant. it depends on the industry and the firm and the job you do. however that's not to diminish the fact that public sector payrises aren't bobbins or that you'd even get one. and even without a payrise you're likely to still be paid more in the private sector.

Good luck recruiting into social care - already an incredibly dire situation - if you take away the possibility of a decent pension as well.

You're providing very 'end of nose' thinking.

Parliamentarian's pensions should certainly be slashed! That would fund an awful lot of jobs

You might as well suggest that public sector salaries should be slashed. While they can obviously do that, people aren't exactly queuing up to do many public sector jobs nowadays. Why would anyone do the jobs if they are both low paid and don't even have good pensions?

No one should be spared from Labour money grab.

God, this.

It really wouldn't. Their pensions are incredible but they're less than a drop in the ocean of public spending. They were reformed in 2015 and made a lot less generous - and the contributions from MPs' salaries to get the higher rate increased to 13% or so, with lower contributions leading to lower pensions.

But even at the old rate they would pay for very few jobs. Just like their salaries and expenses, they're a rounding error in public expenditure.

Yes, think it's OP rather than the replies 'missing the point'.

This. I joined the public sector in 1997 and there were no final salary or 'gold plated' pensions then.

We have had 14 years of 1% pay rises and I earn barely above minimum wage.

If I wasn't so bloody old I'd have been off, the pension is the ONLY half decent thing about my job.

Sick and tired of people continually bashing the public sector without having a fucking clue how the country would grind to a fucking halt without us.

Let's not forget that many civil servants won't just leave for better paid work in the private sector, there are many that would go for lower paid work and it would disrup the market.

What are you then going to do for young people looking for their first job?

The increased minimum wage means noone will want to hire an inexperienced uni student for 6 weeks when Frank will work the shit shift at waitrose until the end of time, with no fuss and his years of people skills, for a quiet life, patiently waiting for his 3x annual death in service benefit from Waitrose to finally pay off his neverending mortgage and allow Sylvia to retire at the dear old age of 83.

The proposal seems to be "I want to save money with a policy that would save money in thirty years' time but probably force expenditure to rise significantly now to get jobs filled in the short term."

It's an interesting approach. Feels like one based on "I would like to kick some public sector workers please."

Jobs to do what? Spend money they keep slashing every year? Why would we need more litter pickers or law makers when there aren't funds for the vehicles to collect the litter, decent roads to drive on because there isn't funding, or new laws when there aren't enough police or prisons to enforce them??

Procurement contracts would he a better place to start.

Edited to add, I mean that you can't hire people of there are no materials of facilities in place. More staff isn't always the solution. Good staff are needed and you buy cheap you buy twice. Would you want your anaesthetics done by a doctor or an associate? 1 doctor paid well or 2 not paid well and not as qualified? I know who I want in my operating room

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c725g0pr5r1o.amp

The problem with this would be funding the double payments. At the moment, current contributions by existing workers go towards pension payouts for retired people.

Under your suggested reform, the current contributions of each individual would have to go into a ring-fenced individual pot, I assume in that person’s name and the government would have to fund all the pension payments from somewhere else.

If you think there’s a black hole in the budget now……

In the private AND PUBLIC sector, high percentage final salary pensions were phased out in the early 2000s