To think public sector pensions should be slashed?

[Monwmum]

I'm probably going to be slated for even suggesting it....but in the private sector, high percentage final salary pensions were phased out in the early 2000s because they are a money pit and unsustainable. They were continued in the public sector as a sweetener because (apparently) public sector jobs were lower paid.

This simply isn't the case anymore. After years of frozen pay or meagre 1 or 2% pay increases in much of the private sector versus mainly regular inflation based pay increases in the public sector, this gap has been reduced if not closed completely. However, public sector pensions are still getting contributions of the high 20% figures while private sector pensions range from 4% -10%.

Quite a difference! Am I being unreasonable to say this would be a good place to start saving some of our tax money? And before people start saying there would be outrage just remember this was done to every private sector employee in the early 2000s so it can be done.

No, I am saying that if I worked in the private sector doing the exact same job I would earn 3x the salary (minimum).

I like public sector work because it fits my values, and just about accept the drop in salary because of the pension benefits and greater flexibility (eg. I took leave last minute today to help a relative). Take away the pension without tripling my salary and it would be a no brainer to move to the private sector.

Every time I see one of these threads about tax payers funding things for the public sector, I remember that I really must contact HMRC about a refund of all the tax I paid over 40 odd years. Somehow the memo about public servants not contributing got missed.

Yes. Anyone would think they haven't paid into their pensions as well and that the money can just be taken away.

I don't disagree at all that there is the need for massive productivity improvements in the public sector. But the idea that can be achieved solely by individual workers achieving tougher targets is pretty naive about the drivers of productivity in any sector. Productivity across the UK as a whole is pretty woeful and the drivers are complex.

Given your expertise, I assume you have a view on the ONS work improving the way public sector productivity is measured.

it sounds like you expect to do more work if you're in the public sector than you currently do. Also, you realise that you aren't suddenly going to get a good pension if you switch to the public sector? You have to pay in for many years and given pensions are being cut all the time there are certainly no guarantee.

Yeah but they pay our wages dontcha know 😂

Would be interesting to know how to measure "productivity" in some parts of the public sector, as they aren't about making profits but spending money in the best way to achieve the desired outcomes. Of course many of these outcomes are very rigidly defined, and at the same time the inputs can vary drastically.

Lets take social care for example. The required services from a local authority are strictly defined as to what they need to do for certain types of people e.g. for people on very low incomes with care needs, these needs must be funded by the LA. With the increase in lifespan in general there are more and more very elderly people in need of care, so these costs go up - and while central government may increase the budget for the direct costs of care they don't increase the budget for staff to assess and administrate getting the right care in place. Then Covid struck, leaving many more people with long term or permanent care needs, thus increasing the administrative overhead.

Another change in recent years has been an increase in the number of children needing to be taken into care for various reason, with the LA having to fund much of the costs associated with this. It doesn't stop when they reach 18 either, as 18-25 care leavers have to be supported (by central government edict) which costs a fair bit in both direct costs and staff.

Then add in something that affects the South East more than other areas - refugees. A number of these will be children who need to be taken in to care, many of who are then given the same rights as UK born care leavers. There's been little ort no increase in funds for this, despite the massive increase in illegal immigration in react years.

Tell me how to measure "productivity" in those scenarios?

Maybe we can look at a few other areas that local government deals with, like environmental health. Currently environmental health officers are working flat out, often with unpaid overtime. Recent years have seen an increase in things they have to deal with e.g. fly tipping, stricter laws around licensing for events etc. Budget has gone up by less than inflation. Please define productivity measures for that area.

In the news today, another Borough council in Surrey has declared the LG equivalent of bankruptcy. OK in this case the report makes it clear that much of the losses in this case are down to very poor decision making by senior management and the council itself, but in many authorities services have been cut to the bone and staff are going off sick, retiring early due to ill health or just quitting due to overwork and the pressures of the job. Recruitment is almost impossible due to the low salaries on offer, and vacancy rates are at an all time high.

Please tell me how to measure and improve the productivity of the social worker who's case load has doubled in the last 2 years and each case is more complex than the last.

Oh which council?

Woking I think

Woking was last year I thought?

Yes, but the report came out this week & was on the local news this morning. Basically the decision makers cocked up by not doing boring little things like risk management, and borrowing every penny possible.

And of course Medway's latest budgetary ills are in the news again this week. Previous bunch (voted out recently) saying how they would be doing things differently from the current new bunch. Only £22 million & counting though, so better than some of the nearby county councils.

Oh sorry I forgot - it's nothing to do with bad decisions by the seniors, it's all because the lower grades are a bunch of lazy wankers because we only give blood, sweat and tears, and not our first born child for our crap salary!🙄

Yep. Way too much of the conversation around public sector productivity focuses on very simple financial inputs/efficiency and inputs/outputs rather than inputs/outcomes.

There is a huge challenge in measuring the benefits of preventative activities - such as in social work, fire service, health care, environmental regulation - in a way that measures the benefits rather than "activities" which might drive counterproductive outcomes. Eg more, lower quality visits might look more "efficient" because there's more outputs, but might actually result in lower benefits.

I'm in the emergency services, and pay 13.5% of my salary into my pension. The pension is literally the only good thing left in this job. If they reduce my pension to give a pay rise, I will leave.