Considering sending my child to a predominantly South Asian school

[billiegoat]

Our local primary school (in a very predominantly White Home Counties town) is probably the only school with a South Asian ethnic majority. I'd say 70% of the children are South Asian. I really like the school and we could walk there so I think it will be the one for us.

I wondered if there was anything I needed to consider in terms of culture and inclusivity etc.

For example - will the other mums be open to getting to know me (white British) and forming friendships?

Will there be play dates and birthday parties?

Anything else I should consider?

Sorry if this sounds ignorant or rude - I don't mean to at ALL - just want to make the right choice. I think I felt a bit worried during the show around being the only white British mum that we might be a bit left out...!

My children go to a school where 70% of the children are from ethnic minorities - African origin and Asian mostly. Their primary school was also very diverse, although a majority were white children.
We've never had any issue with our children being excluded or not having play dates. At primary school, despite the majority being white, my son seemed to gravitate towards the Asian children. His group of friends were Muslims, Hindus and a Chinese boy. He was always invited to birthday parties and playdates by them.
We do live in an area where everyone mixes. I don't know if it's different in other areas.

SE Asian or SE Asian Muslim? Your experience will very widely depending on whether they are predominantly Hindu or Muslim. I have nothing against either religions, but in my experience, Muslims tend to be more religious and have cultural lifestyle aspects that are dictated by the religion. They are not academics obsessed.
Hindu people in the UK are much more likely to be inclusive, but you’ll see they are usually competitive with academics.

In answer to this, I think it comes down to two things, speaking specifically here about England and drawing on experience of schools (we have moved about and DS has been to a few!)

• one is if there is diversity across a number of cultures and religions then that seems to largely work well as there is no one group that prevails. A common language has to be found and is usually English. People who self select this diverse group wish to mix and maintain that diversity.

• or the prevailing group is white British and those in a minority or minorities have to fit in with that culture, speak the language etc, but are welcomed by the majority group and included. If they are self selecting as a minority who wish to be a part of what’s on offer within the mainstream culture of the country then they want to assimilate and be a part of things.

Language is massively important. It’s not unreasonable to expect a minority group to speak the majority language. But the clash comes if the majority language doesn’t match that of the host nation and children cannot access the social side of things in a school in their own country.

So when you get a school which is not diverse and where the group has self selected into a single culture and language that is not of the home nation, it’s pretty difficult as the white English speaker to become a part of that.

(edited as posted too soon!)

Don’t be daft - I made loads of friends when my kids were at primary. They’ve nearly left school altogether now but those parent friends are still a key part of my social circle. It’s absolutely fine to be involved at primary - it’s only on MN where it’s considered a crime 🙄

Many of them don’t see integration into the U.K. culture as a good thing.

@Stripedfrog “when you get a school which is not diverse and where the group has self selected into a single culture and language that is not of the home nation, it’s pretty difficult as the white English speaker to become a part of that”

Difficult for anyone to become part of that, and difficult for anyone to get out of that. The forces you’re describing could almost be designed to result in permanent segregation. It seems like a terrible dynamic to plant in a country.

Hi OP,
I live in a very white area. I'm white. I can tell you I have no school mum friends made through either of my children. I work etc and they were all friends before the kids started school.

I really don't mind, I have friends with children who we see etc. But just to give the other perspective that even if your child went to a different school, the community may not be welcoming still! Or you may not have mums lining up to be friends.

I would be concerned about the language situation, if dd feels excluded. However, you sound full of enthusiasm. I wonder if it might be an option to perhaps ask the school what the main language spoken tends to be... and perhaps learn some? I think this goes a long way. Good luck!

OP’s situation is not yours! You have basically described the exact opposite experience. OP is not considering a school with a diverse intake.

Agreed! I posted up thread about having to move DS out of a school in which he was a minority in a single S Asian culture. It was a private school and many parents were professionals, the kids probably a mix of first and second gen.But very conservative as a group.

The social and cultural aspects were just too hard to break into. The boys at the school were incredibly confident and targeted DS as a bit of a soft touch who was out of his depth and friendless. They would impose rules such as “elders know best” or “speak when you’re spoken to” and so if you were younger in the year then that gave them licence to tell you off, push you out of line etc. The girls seemed to keep themselves in a separate group
and he never made friends with any girls, having always been a child who was not bothered about boys v girls rivalries or stereotypes.

We moved him to the local state school which was pretty rubbish on academics tbh but it was nurturing, diverse and friendly. He then made friends with a variety of kids of different cultures and backgrounds of both genders and was far happier.

In all honesty I was never sure the first school was right but we had limited choice given the poor academic rep of the local state school and catchments cutting us out of other schools, and I so badly did not want to make a decision that felt prejudiced. But breaking into a different cultural group was impossible and his time at that school was a very sad experience for DS.

@Sskka - it doesn’t necessarily perpetuate. There was a noticeable difference between families with first generation immigrant parents and those with second or third generation parents.

The former tended to stick to extended family socialising, the latter were more open.

Once again, people are slipping into the same old stereotypes that Muslims don't want to integrate, they are closed, they don't want to speak English etc.
Its always hard for me to read these comments as they're the opposite of my experience, living in an area with high numbers of Muslims.
All I can say is that my children made lots of Muslim friends. The families were open and welcoming, not only inviting the children into their homes but us as well. Muslim mums were active members of the PTA. Although some occasionally speak Urdu or Arabic they all speak English well. Many here have a strong Yorkshire accent and use all the Yorkshire colloquialisms. They sound much more local than me, a southerner.
I work with around six Muslims who are all friendly. Again I've been invited to some of their houses. They always join in the Christmas party and any other social events we have.
We are friends with the local Imam, who frequently opens up the nosque for anyone to pop in. He wants to reach out to the community and increase understanding.
I'm not saying there's no problems with integration in some areas. I'm sure there are but I like to give balance. It's simply not my experience that Muslims are hostile and closed to other communities.
People make these comments such as "They don't see integration with white, British people as a good thing" and it pisses people off and increases the very strong anti-Muslim feeling that exists at the moment.

@sallyWD just to point out that many of us are not talking about Muslims or indeed religion. Not all S Asians will be Muslim. This is about language, culture and diversity of a group. Any group.

I know, but some are.

My kid was one a handful of white kids in her year. She has absolutely loads of friends of all races and I have plenty of mum friends of all races and religions.

Apart from a fair bit of “what am I?” Questions when she was small and hating culture day when she had no idea what to dress in apart from school uniform, it’s caused no problems at all.

How do you want to be involved? We used breakfast and after school clubs so avoided the playground drop off and collection politics. We didn’t have a class WhatsApp group - thank goodness!
We saw more of the parents as the children all got older and we supported them in sports events.
I didn’t make school mum friends as I already had friends and worked full time.

My daughter goes to a school where the children are predominantly Muslim and Hindu.

We absolutely love the school! We chose it partly because of the ethnic diversity. It’s a lovely, excellent school and we’re so happy we chose to send her there.

My daughter is 5 and hasn’t been to any birthday parties yet but my husband and I are quite antisocial anyway so we’re happy to not have weekends taken up by constant birthday parties tbh. Our daughter isn’t bothered by the lack of birthday parties or play dates so it’s fine.

I think it’s unfair to assume the other mums wouldn’t want to get to know you or form friendships! This has been far from my experience so far. I’ve made one school mum friend who is Muslim. She has a group of other school mum friends and I’ve sort of joined their school mum group. She is absolutely lovely. We go for walks, have coffee and our children (they were in the school nursery together which is how we got talking) play at the playground some times. She is much easier to get on with and talk to than some of my non-Muslim friends tbh. But then she is more British than me, slightly older than me, and has lived here all her life so I can’t see why anyone would even think that she would be less likely to form friendships or interact with any other non-Muslim friends really.

I’m shy and keep to myself but really everyone is so friendly and I feel like there’s way less of the school gate politics and dramas than at some other schools I hear of.

And most importantly it is really a great school, fantastic reputation, my daughter is thriving, she’s made some wonderful friends and that’s what’s most important.

I’d just consider whether the school is a good school and wouldn’t factor in the cultural differences really.

OP is not considering a school with a diverse intake though so it is a different situation.

I don't have any personal experience of this but I appreciate your concerns and I'm not convinced it is going to offer you the Primary School experience you want for your child.

For us, I wanted my children to have a similar experience at Primary as what I had. The Nativity Play was the highlight of the year. December was all about Christmas crafts and Carol Services. Easter was about making cards, Easter Bonnet parades, Harvest Festival about Hymns and donating to the church, Mothering Sunday was about the children making gifts/cards for their mums. I don't know how much of that would be happening in this school and whether it would be replaced by other celebrations, such as Diwali, which are not part of your culture. It's nice to have a balance but this may be a bit too far the other way.

If the intake is from the different countries in S Asia- India, Pakistan, Bangladesh- the.common language might still be English. Indeed, India has 16 languages so while both DH and I are Indian, we speak to each other in English. Those kinds of schools may be more welcoming.

But from what you say, doesnt sound like it.
As a fairly Westernised S Asian, ( too Western my mum thinks) I attempted to send my DC to schools with good results and academics- important to me- but also with liberal values where the children mix- equally important.

This is a really interesting thread. I think it can be tough for a child to be a minority and look visibly different to others in a class. Butt it does build resilience. But it's not something most people would ordinarily choose for their child as it's hard. I'm a bit surprised that people's experience is that South Asians don't do birthday parties or play dates. It may be that they are first generation so may not be comfortable or worried about inviting people from other cultures to their homes. And also they do family orientated birthday parties.

Why do you keep posting this when someone shares a positive story of their child being in a minority as a white pupil? You don't know what mix of faiths go to the school OP is considering. You know that approx 70% are south Asian which could include Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists etc. Therefore the school could be very diverse in terms of cultures. There are also 30% of pupils that are not south Asian and you don't know what mix these pupils are from. You also don't know what mix of faiths and races these other posters experienced when they share their positive stories. You're making assumptions.

Yes, it’s exactly this.

S Asian is a very catchall term. It's like saying Europeans don't do play dates! There is huge diversity in the region, as pp said. Some 6 to 7 religions, maybe about 20 different languages, people from many different backgrounds.

It would depend on the religions of the children.

Of the 30 in year, 14 are from Asia.

All of my children's Hindu and Sikh friends have parties, celebrate different religious festivals and want to actively be friends with all types of parents and children.

The Muslim children and parents (there are 5 in the year) do not go to any of the parties, don't host any party, refuse play dates and don't allow their children to be part of any Christian events. Do not speak with any other parents. There is a very them and us feel from them.

I would never put my children in a school where the majority of the class followed Islam as I know my child would be excluded and ostracised.

You may struggle to make friends and be involved even in a predominantly white school. It can be very cliquey and you may not be accepted Who knows what group you're going to get? I think just go with what you think is best for your kids. You can still be involved and volunteer at the school as opposed to it being a social thing for you.