Considering sending my child to a predominantly South Asian school

[billiegoat]

Our local primary school (in a very predominantly White Home Counties town) is probably the only school with a South Asian ethnic majority. I'd say 70% of the children are South Asian. I really like the school and we could walk there so I think it will be the one for us.

I wondered if there was anything I needed to consider in terms of culture and inclusivity etc.

For example - will the other mums be open to getting to know me (white British) and forming friendships?

Will there be play dates and birthday parties?

Anything else I should consider?

Sorry if this sounds ignorant or rude - I don't mean to at ALL - just want to make the right choice. I think I felt a bit worried during the show around being the only white British mum that we might be a bit left out...!

I went to a school like this

Super high racial tensions

Awful

At least I did. And it was totally a generalisation, but I feel like you can't answer without generalising. In my experience first generation immigrants who live in an area where they're a significant minority(or majority) tend to stick together. The second generation one what have gone to local schools and universities tend to get to know more people and be more open to other parents. Of course if they're living in an area where they are not a significant minority then it is different.

Which south asian culture is the predominant one in the school? That’s important as that will give you the exact answer you’re looking for. South Asians are culturally very different and cannot be put into the same category where English/ Welsh/ Scottish people are predominantly similar, an equivalent 3 South Asian Identities or cultures would be more similar to English, Turkish, Russian etc. the languages are different. Even if they are of the same religion cultural practices will make it different on how they practise. Also not everyone will be a religious nut.

Is your child a boy or a girl?
Based on my experience, the child is more likely to feel isolated as time goes on if she is a girl.
Boys just tend to play football (in this case it may be cricket) which is more likely to break down any boundaries, and the cultural differences are less.

Whereas for girls, there is more of a desire for close contact, social cohesion, and more 'judging', and it will be harder for a girl if she is the only non-white.

I think on the mums side you will feel isolated if the mothers all have something other than english as their first language, and therefore speak it with each other, and are traditional/religious - the question is whether it's worth it for your child to be in a great school educationally.
If they have english as first language, then you will probably be OK.

Please do not send your child to that school. From previous experience it won't end well at all

I worked in a primary school where the majority of kids were of Bengali, Punjabi and Somali. There were one or two white kids in most classes. The school was in a deprived intercity area and the parents seemed to stick together and there seemed to be very few party invites, play dates etc. Most kids seemed to mix with extended family and a few neighbours. But that was just one school. At Eid the kids were able to share what they did over the holiday with the class and child after child said they went to their cousins and swapped money and gifts and shared meals with various family. I am from a different ethnic minority and even though I was brought up atheist, culturally and socially I did not mix outside school. At weekends we visited/visited by both sets of DGPs, various aunties and uncles and cousins. We did play with our neighbours after school and in the holidays and went to one another’s birthday parties . But they were also from the same minority. As an adult I have a mix of friends from different ethnicities and much prefer being part of a wider community.

It could be that your proposed school is just fine but equally you and your DC may find themselves feeling a bit out on a limb.

That definitely is a red flag in terms of not being the right school for your family.

If the school is walkable then surely where you live has a large South Asian population? How do you find living in the area, doing activities with children, have you not mingled at all locally?

I found the children mixed well during school time but there very few playdates, birthday party invitiations or after school activities as the other children mostly socialised with extended family like cousins and second cousins.

I would want to know more about the particular groups that are attending the school before making a decision.

Does the predominant culture skew more towards equality of the sexes and a strong push for academic success? I went to a school with a large cohort of students whose parents were immigrants with this philosophy. It was a good school ethos.

does the predominant culture skew more towards one where there is sexism in the name of religion or culture? This is already so hard to fight on a general cultural level, regardless of race, religion, or family tradition. I wouldn’t want to put my child in a school where it would be concentrated and the ideas reinforced.

I wouldn’t send my child, I wouldn’t want them to be in the minority if I had the choice. The fact that the parents weren’t speaking in English would also put me off, especially seeing as you want to be involved/ make friends with the parents.

My friend has her 2 girls at a 98-99% S Asian school where the main religion is Islam. She loves the school and the teachers that side is all excellent. But she hasn't been able to make any friends. No playdates . No birthday parties. I feel sorry for her that she doesn't have any company to even chat to at the school gate and the girls are happy enough but never see anyone outside school time or during the holidays which is lonely. The trick would be to have your child in activities outside school I think so they can hopefully make some friends and you can too. She has found the parents don't want to be friends: they have their community already. The school also voted to close at 1pm on Fridays so they could all get ready for mosque. Makes it tricky for my friend who works.

Honestly I would never proactively make a choice for my child that puts them in a minority, unless there is a very strong reason for it. So if all of the other schools around you get terrible results (for example) I would explore it further, but if there are other decent schools close by with a more mixed/diverse make-up I would pick one of those - especially given the parents weren't speaking English on the tour, that's a red flag for both your child's and your experience.

I think it depends which ethnic group and what generation. I’m 2nd gen and I don’t care about race or religion and will speak to whoever is standing next to me. Always seem to have weekends booked up with parties and playdates as do my asian siblings. So I wouldn’t assume it will be very conservative. I had playdates when I was a kid and my parents were happy to drop me off.

Most second gens primarily speak in English so if the parents were mainly speaking a different tongue then yeah I would expect it to be quite conservative. Playdates just aren’t a thing in many cultures so it’s not that people are necessarily against them, they just don’t know about them. If you decide to send your child there you may have to be very proactive on the social side.

The first gens I know who make a big effort to join in tend to be from professional backgrounds and are making an effort to integrate or to make sure their kids have the same experiences as other kids. It really does depend. I would never ever send my child to a school which looked like the families were quite religious though.

We have gone from a predominantly white school to a predominantly se Asian school and I prefer this school. No negative interactions at school, in the classroom or in the playground. The classroom seems to fly through classes much more productively without the constant interruptions of the few usual suspects. The school grounds are always nice and tidy at the last school areas such as the toilets were always being vandalised.
The parents are all friendly but yes, in a more distant way. But they really encourage their kids to be good people and sadly that was often not the case at the prior school. The students and families seem a lot prouder of the school. I really wanted to get my kids away from the rougher kids especially before high school.
The only downside is less social invitations.

I’m mixed race and would not send my DC to a school that was a majority of any ethnic group other than white British, the majority group of the country. I don’t think it’s a positive thing, and I definitely would not be focused on trying to immerse myself in SE Asian or any other non British customs and culture in order for my child to fit in at school and for me to make mum friends in the UK.

Is there a middle ground?

It seems there are only two extremes- either they don't go out on weekends, speak their own language, no parties/playdates and probably best not to be 'right on' and try to fit in

or

wear a mini skirt and go pole dancing

I know this thread isn’t yours. In your place, I absolutely would move my dd. She would have felt so isolated in this situation being an only child with no local family. As is she has a diverse mix of friends and one of her besties, who is Muslim, is allowed out but her parents are more strict and she doesn’t go to parties in the evening for example. Dd is 16 btw and there are so many parties at this age now that pubs are for over 18s.

As for the op, we live near a minority white city and idk what it is like in the city schools in some areas as my friend’s ds attended a city school in a majority white location. Our village is mixed albeit majority white and in my experience the kids and parents integrated well, attended birthday parties and so forth. A number of the kids were also mixed race (indian / white) and integration was high including with muslim parents where, for example, their mum grew up in India as the mum speaks perfect English having attended university. The only kids, who weren’t allowed to integrate were Plymouth Bretheren.

What you are describing with your dd being one of very few white kids, I would wonder how well she and you are able to integrate (I’m meaning out of school times). If you’re wanting personal friendships, coffee dates and play dates, I would make discreet enquires if you are able about how it currently works with the children currently at the school. At primary age, social and soft skills are very important. Any academics can be caught up through parental or private tutoring.

Our experience is a different in that this was a high school but I've moved my DD out of both school and area as one of 5 white kids in her year group. Predominantly Bengali / Pakistani area. I'd think very carefully OP.

Wonderful school academically but socially abysmal. Starting with low level exclusion, 1st and 2nd gen kids. Her peers either weren't allowed to mix with white kids or simply didn't do non family social stuff. No invites, everything we offered declined. By year 8 it became bullying. Criticism for eating during Ramadan, her clothing, her blonde hair. Boys making sexualised comments about her appearance, her lack of religion etc. her confidence was on the floor. School intervened but we had very little recourse - when it's everyone it's hard to sanction. 3 months in new area and I have a different child. Diversity is extremely important to us, but true diversity, which this wasn't. A good friend has just moved his (black) daughter from the area for the same reason, and she is also thriving in her new school.

It is sad. I presume they do realise the kids will effectively be separate and that's exactly what they want. They are very conservative in the roles of male and females and I presume they regard the culture of the UK as undesirable.
I realise there are numerous cultures within the UK and it's not all one thing, but the strength in that is the mutual familiarity and blending which gives cross cultural interest. But not all groups want that.

Schools that have a range of different cultures in them are great and that tends to work pretty well, but being a minority in a school that has one dominant culture is quite tough and not something I would want for my child if I had the choice. It depends what the ratio in your child’s year group is and if the other children are all from the same part of South Asia with the same language and same religion. If the parents on the show round were not speaking English then I would not expect to be included much beyond polite greetings.

I have a good friend whose “South Asian” she’s Chinese but was born in Malaysia if you want to be specific. She would happily do play dates chat to other mums etc but they do have a very pushy approach to education. She teases me over my “very relaxed” approach and I tease her for being a “tiger mum” any after school activities would not be allowed to clash with daily often twice daily private tutoring music lessons playing three instrument is normal ballet classes homework language lessons I could go on. She’ll cheerfully admit it’s a very “South Asian” things.

A hundred per cent this. Children want to blend in, be the same. It's not kind to make them be in a minority if you don't have to.

This is such a depressing thread. It feels like the whole modern experiment is fundamentally doomed, regardless of what we tell ourselves. We can’t build a proper society if large parts of it are going to self-segregate and then keep perpetuating it.

I would ask though: is it only particular configurations where you find this sort of exclusion? I’ve never had an impression of majority white schools being cliquey against outsiders, but maybe that’s not always how it feels?

OP this is me! I was worried about this too!
My DD goes to a school where she is one of two white kids in her class.
The other parents are from a mix of South Asian and a bit of Arab nationalities and a few African. It's very diverse.

The parents all speak English, they're 2nd generation so we're born and brought up here. Some mums wear a veil, some headscarves, some nothing.

There's a class WhatsApp group, there's been playdates, birthday parties and I'm not good at making friends but if that's your thing I know that it would happen. They are all very very friendly. I have been over to a few of their homes for a cuppa and chat. There is one mum who I see quite regularly and she is a good laugh!

The school has an active PTA. They have things on for Xmas as well as other religious festivals like Eid and Diwali.

I have found it an eye opener and was ashamed of how my prejudices before DD started here.