To be confused why DIL has suddenly changed in how she treats me

[helpamilout]

My son is in his mid-30s and has been with his wife for nearly a decade. They dated for 3-4 years before getting married. When they were dating, she was lovely—chatty, friendly and extremely polite, almost overly so, often saying things like, “Do you mind if I use your bathroom?” or “Thank you very much” for even small gestures.

After they got engaged, everything still seemed fine. But a couple of weeks before the wedding, they told us she was six weeks pregnant, and that’s when things began to change. She became more private and somewhat secretive about the pregnancy (which is of course her right—it was just very different from how she had been before). She was quieter in conversations and didn’t reach out to us as much as she used to. I don’t believe we did anything to cause this; we avoided giving unsolicited advice and tried to be supportive. The only thing I can think of is that I once mentioned C-sections having longer recovery times when she shared she was considering it, but that seems minor.

We also expressed that we were very excited to meet the baby, though we didn’t pressure them with specific timing. We ended up meeting our grandchild when they were one month old, while her mom met the baby in the hospital and her dad when the baby was just three days old. When she was pregnant with their second, they didn’t tell us until she was 20 weeks along, even though it seemed her close friends already knew.

They never ask us to babysit but often ask her parents. They visit her parents once a month, but they only come to see us once or twice a year, despite us living the same distance away (a couple of hours, though in the opposite direction). I do see them a bit more often because I go to visit them, but they never invite me to stay overnight, whereas her mom often stays with them.

It’s perhaps worth noting that my daughter-in-law is a stay-at-home mom, and my son works long hours, sometimes on weekends. While arranging visits should ideally be a joint effort, it often falls on her since my son can’t really insist on her seeing us when he isn’t around. My son does make an effort to plan visits with us when he’s off work, but when I do visit, she seems distant and disengaged. I’ve heard her mention that the drive to us is “far,” yet she drives the same distance to her parents regularly. During visits, she often seems uninterested and sometimes responds quite shortly. For instance, when I asked how long the baby typically naps, she just shrugged and said, “Depends.” And when I brought a homemade banana cake for everyone to share, she laughed and said he doesn’t like bananas anymore.

I’m confused what has caused this. I’ve asked my son but he says everything is fine. Should I ask her? If so, how? Can MNers see what I’ve made done wrong or help me guess?

Our situation has developed over the years I have known her. She is a difficult person, has a lot of anxiety and insecurities and I know, I'm not the only one who finds her very hard to be around (her own children have said so, friends have told her off etc). She talks, NON stop. She assumes. She overbears under the guise of being helpful. She is flat out rude if she is in a bad mood.

@Zestyfrost my ex sil would have described my dm as being like this. The fact is my dm was terrified of her dil because dm knew that there was some difficulty but didn’t know why. The non stop talking was nerves.
My dm would get so upset and eventually would say something that her dil perceived as rude.
Frankly you should consider your own behaviour and the way it contributes to that of your mil.
You sound really mean.

Hold on, you live 2 hours away and still see your grandchildren one weekend a month? That's a lot more than many grandparents get, especially when they live far away. Of course your DIL sees her parents more that she sees you- to be blunt, she loves them and has known them her whole life. I think you need to just appreciate the time you do spend with your grandchildren.

perhaps she is tired with the baby or anxious about things
do you ever visit instead of them visiting?

Mothers of sons - this is your sign to raise your sons to be family men, ie men who take on equal childcare duties, take shared parental leave and go part time once child is born to spend more time with them!

my husband is like this and so naturally he wants to spend more time with his own parents when he’s “off work”, and they do get a much more equal “share” of time with DC. Just as I find it easier to spend time with my parents when I’m off, especially in the early days when I’m recovering, breastfeeding etc.

Raise a workaholic who wants to “provide” for his family and you’ll be at the mercy of your DIL!

Agreed. It annoys the hell out of me when DILs are always blamed for not enough contact with the in-laws. Why is this something women have to facilitate?

I wouldn't have spent time with my in-laws without DH when the kids were wee. They stressed me out. I always did try to be nice to MIL, but I also saw arranging to see them as DH responsibility. I would encourage him to, but he was a bit rubbish with it, plus he has never enjoyed spending time with them much for several reasons, partly MIL's late husband, who he didn't get on with (while funnily enough, I did!) and FIL having been a heavy drinker and smoker until he got COPD and liver problems and had to give up, so staying with him with the kids was out.

My own mum has her moments, but it's much easier to be open and frank with your own parents, if they give unwanted advice etc, I could tell my own to wheesht, but MIL would have been offended for weeks if I said anything about her constant stream of insensitive comments! It's generally easier to repair a relationship with your own family after a falling out.

I think this is all pretty normal for a relationship where you're only connected because you love the same person/people.

I love my MIL and like spending time with her but my god I found her difficult to begin with! She loves a political debate or discussion but I was always in the wrong as a southerner and didn't feel I could argue properly with an "elder". But over the 25 years or so we've known each other we've developed a good relationship.

Many men are so, so lazy about keeping up family relationships. Your son sounds quite decent actually.

Be civil and who knows, when the DC are school age, perhaps you can have them for some stays in the school holidays.

In the meantime volunteer for Home Start maybe? You could change someone's life.

See, the comment about recovery from a section by the OP made me prick my ears up. Depending on tone, it might have come off judgmental. And fwiw I have had two sections and was shopping in town on day 4 after my second - zero pain! I know many friends who had vaginal deliveries were out of action for way longer…

I’m sorry OP, but I think your DIL just isn’t that into you.

It sounds like prior to pregnancy the relationship was quite superficial. I’m guessing that you and your husband cranked up how much you wanted to see them both once the DGC arrived. Did your son ever go on family holidays with you as an adult before DGC vs. did DIL go on holidays with her parents?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but she sees you as an acquaintance/a work colleague. Somebody that before she would have been polite over dinner but doesn’t want to host regularly over night.

I understand why you’re desperate to spend time with your DGC but neither your son or DIL is desperate to spend time with you. I can understand why your DIL is getting frustrated at how you keep inviting yourself into half their family time together AND you don’t seem to appreciate that sacrifice they’re making. In all due respect, it’s unnecessary for you to expect the whole of their day let alone staying over night. I’d be curious if you just waited for an invite then either flat out asking for more visits.

I’m sorry OP but I’d read the room that either you’re already inviting yourself over too much, or your mentality that the time you spend together isn’t appreciated. I’d actually recommend taking a step back the next few months as I think your DIL is getting ready to blow.

Just sit back, because once the kids are older then you’ll probably be able to have them overnight during the school holidays etc.

OP had a Section. She was just telling her of her experience

I always try and be kind around her actually. Did you read the part I said she cheated on him?! Wouldn’t you be on your guard if this happened to your family member? How should she be his priority when they don’t have children, and when he contacts another family member he says how he isn’t happy and she controls everything to who he goes out with and how he spends his money? I’ve given you a brief version otherwise I’d be here all day. But before you comment ridiculous statements like this you should understand there is always more to a story but this is someone else’s post and I’m not taking it over, I was commenting I’m in a similar situation.
if they had children and were married it would be different but whilst she continues to cause issues for absolutely no reason other than she’s just a control freak, then I’ll always have my reasons to air on the side of caution when I’m not around her!

You sound lovely op. It's sad it hasn't worked out the way you imagined it might, but you can't force 'closeness', and there is not much rhyme or reason on which personalities 'click'.

I would maybe describe myself as 'close from a distance' with my mil. We get on very well, but she is not my mum nor would we be a natural fit as friends we are too different. I love her a lot and I'm sure she feels the same, up to the point that I am not actually her daughter, which is natural of course but has become very clear in a few actions over the years. Similar distance involved, and we don't have a constant chatty relationship outside of the occasions when we meet, which is fairly frequently but erratically.

Both pil are very different to me and my family in character and background and just about every way, but it works within it's limitations. I'm wondering if there is any big difference between your family and dil's family? Huge discrepancy in wealth, politics, culture etc? Is there anything in your son's upbringing that she might know about to affect her opinion of you - he was awfully spoilt/clear favouritism between siblings/paper round to even afford bus fare to school/full boarding from 8/enforced annual holidays at a weird relatives house/anything to mark a difference in upbringing which might seem more relevant now they have children themselves?

Your son works long hours, evening, and 1-2 weekends per month?!

So he likely sees his kids a maximum of 4-6 days / month? And that's without any non-work hobbies / chores.

Thats pretty shit. Maybe you should be talking to him about being a better husband & father as well as a better son. She probably resents him massively for not pulling his weight. Plus the idea of then spending that time "hosting" you instead of the DIL resting or them actually conversing with each other probably horrifies her.

Maybe loook at his behaviour rather than hers. From what you've said the marriage may welll not survive anyway.

Totally agree
That is what stood out to me.
Op, you seem to be a decent person, however
it appears that you blame your DIL.
Your DS is your child.He should be the one making the effort to facilitate a relationship with you and your GC.
Your DIL has children and her own parents to think about

I don't necessarily think that women should facilitate relationships because they are women, but if there's a sahp and the other parent is working long hours, I do believe the sahp should try to ensure both sets of grandparents get to build relationships with the children. I'd expect a male sahp to include his in-laws as well as his own mum and dad.

I've suggested this - he says DIL wouldn't be comfortable with him taking the kids away without her overnight / she doesn't think the kids would cope well, and she thinks the journey is too long for them to do there and back in the same day.

have not read the entirety of the thread but this is something OP mentioned a few times. He is their parent. He could insist that it's fine, she could use the break and she should stop being so controlling of him around his own children.

of course from DIL's pov he's probably one of those DHs who leaves all the child related stuff to her?

Sorry, OP, you're just going to have to press harder wtih your son, explain how you feel and stop blaming his wife for something she probably hasn't done.

I understand what you mean, but the truth is that even if a woman is working full time hours the expectation is that they should do the donkey work . This includes arranging family meet ups with the in laws

the more of your posts i read, OP, the more i am TeamDIL.

You sound judgy, and put all responsibillity for ALL the relationship work on her. She married your son, not you. You are making an effort, your son isn't.

Think about it. Stop judging her, accept the 50% of their free weekends and reflect more on how your son is leaving it all to her. (big man-job notwithstanding)

i am agreeing that the DIL isn't the one who should be pandering to the judgy MIL here, her son should be.

i would have let hell freeze over before i did anything of the sort with my horrible MIL. I loathed her (she was a horrible woman) and her son only visited from a sense of duty anyway.

But even if I'd loved her -it is not up to me to facilitate the paternal family relationships. I have enough handling my own family relationships.

echo pp - this is where parents of sons need to instil into them how to be good fathers, husbands and sons.

OP you do sound very judgemental of your DIL. She has clearly stated that she doesn't wish to be defined by the housework, but you keep bringing it up as if by not having to do housework she owes you a 'better' relationship.
Perhaps the relationship changed when you started judging how she spends her time.
She has probably picked up that you judge her unkindly, and doesn't wish a close relationship with someone who isn't going to try and understand her.
Do you see her as a person who is interesting and worth spending time with in her own right? Maybe if you pursue this avenue you might have a chance to repair the relationship which is clearly strained and isn't going to be helped by making demands of her. Offers of help can often be perceived as a subtle put down, and whilst she may like the support and understanding (which she accepts from her own family as she trusts them) she may not be willing to accept a need for help from someone who will take the opportunity to 'one-up' her and undermine her in her own home.
This thought may help you. But it requires a change in attitude which is often difficult.

I rarely comment but this has goaded me into it. I was super nice to my future in laws - why? Because I wanted them to like me, I wanted my BF to not feel in the middle. I wanted to be one big happy family unit.

I already had my man. I didn't need my MIL to win my future DH - I was more than enough.
To be very clear, I have always been the main earner. I didn't 'need' him, I wanted him because he made me happy.

25 years later I am very low contact with my MIL - she saw my niceness and subservience as a way to have the upper hand. To make narky comments to me when DH was out of the room. To make degrading comments in public and then feign ignorance. I'm done. I still have my man. Interestingly she's now worn him down and he's low contact too.

Clearly dads should facilitate dgs relationship with their parents and in his case - I actually think he is. The trouble is that whilst men are meant to be doing more of the emotional lanour, clearly in this relationship he is also doing all of the paid labour as well. While men continue to mainly work full time - their time is more limited. Once a month in that case is quite a lot. You and DIL obviously arent friends as people and so won't meet up otherwise aka you won't see your dgs as often. There is nothing you can do really. I assume that if your son tells his wife that he wants to go part time so he can spend more time with the kids and them with you guys, she wouldn't be too pleased.

@boobygravy The OP asked me to give examples of why our relationship had deteriorated so I was trying to do so without specifics.

I have worried a lot over the years that it is me, perhaps I am mean and should be better at coping with her. It's caused me a huge amount of stress as she wants a very close relationship with us all (she freely says she would split her time living between all her children if she was 'allowed'.)

Her son and DIL confided in us last year (we didn't ask, they broached it) that her behaviour was causing issues in their marriage and they didn't know what to.do.

So I don't think it's all me - as I said previously, it's complicated and stressful.

No worries. I was just stating the norm, not comparing as cases do depend on how the delivery went. And it's important that i add , i dont think one is more ideal than the other. Birth is birth.

The recovery for section is based on the scar healing not how quick you are walking after. That's an amazing recovery you had by the way. I'm having my second section in April. Hopefully all going well.

I've read all of ops comments and half the thread. Couple of things I've noticed...

1. Op you seem to think your son is the bees knees. You mentioned 'he' paid for a hotel several times. 'He' didn't. It's family money and she is a sahm, clearly doing everything, so 'they paid'. I wonder how much your subconscious sexism comes across?

1. From her opinion, I expect she could have written her own post which would go something like 'I do everything house and children wise, dh works all the time and thus does nothing, fed up with doing the wife work for his family too'. Response. Unanimous Yanbu, it's up to him to organise.

1. If he's working all hours including 2 weekends a month, that's only 2 spare. If you have 1, that's only one weekend a month where the children actually see their father and have some family time. So given their time constraints, once a month is actually a lot.

The problem seems to boil down to me to your sons work hours. Why does he work so many?