For Thinking that Mixed Saunas are Perverted?

[GreekDogRescue]

I am currently staying in a spa resort in Switzerland. The facilities are immaculate but it always strikes me as odd that the conservative Germanic cultures are so keen on the mixed naked sauna.

I visit every year and endure it but every time I enter the sauna with trepidation, hoping against hope that I do not have to confront some elephantine Germanic male proudly plodding about with his crown jewels on display. Thankfully I’m increasingly myopic but WTF?

The irony is that Brits are seen as wacky nonconformists yet conservative European cultures are so keen to get their kit off at the first glimpse of a bit of heat. There are even signs up forbidding users to wear their bathing costumes. Why?

Obviously as a rule-breaking Brit I defy this but will never forget a Swiss lifeguard storming into the Davos public sauna demanding I take my bathers off. I have also been harassed in the most horrible way so now stick to hotels.

AIBU to find this all very perverted?

Are there any Scandi or Germanic contributors who can shed some light?

'The first few times I went completely nude in a sauna I found it very awkward, but since then I stopped caring as no one else was bothered so why should I be? No one's forced to be there; it's entirely optional'

Not bothered. Well of course they weren't obviously bothered. Nonetheless the men will have checked your naked body out. Why would you let strangers do that?

So only the Brits know how to safeguard their children and the rest of us are just irresponsible parents throwing our kids into the open arms perverts? A child sitting naked on a beach towel playing or an adult women taking off her wet swimsuit to put on something dry aren't sexual acts. It's just life and nobody cares because it's so common in other places.

It’s interesting that I see very few young women in the mixed saunas here. It’s mainly couples and older men and women.
And I agree, men can’t suddenly switch off from checking out attractive women even if they do it covertly. It’s biological.

I grew up going to nude saunas and always knew everyone has a body and they come in all shapes and sizes. Must be challenging to grow up in cultures where being naked is such a massive taboo that you do some funny towel-shuffle even in all female changing rooms, and only (half)naked bodies you see groping up are unrealistic photoshopped models.

As for someone checking me out in sauna, couldn't care less.

'So only the Brits know how to safeguard their children'

Not only Brits, no. I see those from many different cultures and nationalities who protect their dc's privacy and don't let them be naked in public when they are too young and unaware to understand why they shouldn't be.

Eh?
If you find this thread ‘condescending’ and has you clutching for your pearls this one will blow your mind 😱 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5131022-to-not-want-to-see-tts-on-the-beach

'Must be challenging to grow up in cultures where being naked is such a massive taboo '

Not taboo no. Just naked bodies should be for people we know, family etc. Not dodgy blokes in the sauna.

I’m not sure there is any more to it than “different cultures are different”. There are plenty of places in the world / times in history where “normal” British clothing would be considered basically naked. I’m sure they’d ask themselves why you’re so comfortable walking around uncovered.
My guess would be that if your culture evolves somewhere where clothing is something which prevents you from dying of hyperthermia, you might not even consider its role in modesty. Then whenever it’s not so cold you’ll die, there’s no reason not to be naked.

And why shouldn't they be? If everyone normalised nakedness there wouldn't be objectification, naked bodies wouldn't be taboo, bodies would be normal regardless of how they looked and people wouldn't be so ashamed of their bodies. It would do wonders for peoples mental health, at leaste once they are over the give-a-fuck stage. We don't need to hide our bodies away, we all have them, they look different, it doesn't matter.

I mean, it would be weird to strip off whilst walking down the street but when it comes to natural circumstances like bathing/showering, getting changed, playing in water etc it makes sense and nobody would be paying attention.

Perverts don’t need you to be naked to perve though. My children grew up going to saunas and spas where mixed saunas and mixed changing rooms were common. Never once encountered any sort of behaviour that made any of us uncomfortable. Back in the uk though, not a weekend goes by where one of them doesn’t face sexual harassment in the workplace at their Saturday jobs, or in the street. Working in hospitality, walking to school, shopping with friends it is ENDLESS.
I watched recently as my 13yo daughter strided on ahead of me to get to Primark quickly. Within about ten seconds she was approached by a 40+ year old man asking for her number. Last week my 15 yo at work in retail served a man with his wife . As his wife left, the man returned to purchase another item before announcing brazenly to my shy , sweet girl that he hadn’t needed the item he just came back to ‘get a better look at her tits’.

'And why shouldn't they be? If everyone normalised nakedness'

Kids should not be naked in public. Nakedness for dc does not need normalising. Safeguarding kids should be a priority for parents. Really basic stuff here.

At skeggy beach?
You're lucky you didn't get cholera.
The water's brown for a reason.

(Only half joking)

Men will check out your body, naked or not, unfortunately.

Also sitting on a towel is compulsory and having any part of your body in direct contact with a sauna seat is (at least in the Netherlands) extremely frowned upon.

It's compulsory in Germany too.

Imagine if your sweat drips off your body/feet directly onto the wooden bench? How disgusting 🤢 for the next users...

Not bothered. Well of course they weren't obviously bothered. Nonetheless the men will have checked your naked body out. Why would you let strangers do that?

Because I enjoy the sauna!

And because i don't care what strangers look at.

I enjoyed naked spas and hot springs in East Asia but the culture there was for single sex spas, not mixed sex.

Surely part of why the British aren't keen to be in mixed sex spas is because of the well publicised behavior of British (and other) men? I grew up with Benny Hill, Carry On, Page 3 and a general sense that men are obsessed with seeing women's bodies if they can get away with it. Not to mention the flashers, gropers and all the other harassers who start on us when we are only young. I don't believe that men in Europe don't think like that too - they certainly do in East Asia.

Where were you in 2020? Look at how restrictions in Spain or Germany were followed, compared with the UK. (I went to Munich in September 2020). Whilst the worst Prime Minister in history and his former right hand man and their behaviour attracted headlines, they were not alone for not following rules.

Whereas in my experience in Germany, women were the majority of those there.

Strolling through the English Gardens in Munich over the summer ( I love the irony), we stumbled across a very tanned well hung man wearing only a large cock ring. My 8 year old daughter looked up wryly with a slight smirk and said, "Well you don't see that everyday!"

Exactly! Once again we have the narrative that women should curtail their enjoyment because of what some men might think of them. Why would I care what some random bloke thinks of me, provided he doesn't actually bother me in any way?

I don't think my body is that fascinating to anybody else and nor is anybody else's that interesting to me, though. I'd like options so both single sex and mixed were available for those who want them, but I don't care who else is in a sauna with me.

Not sure why there’s an issue with nude… I think a tiny string bikini on a beach can be much more sexual. Oh and there was a fashion for some male beach budgie smuggler wrap around thing not too long ago.

sauna is a great (nude or otherwise) … for about 3 minutes… you sit on a towel/swim suit and relax for said 3 minutes when you get too hot and leave. I’m not built for heat!

thought us Brits loved a good hot tub anyway 😂

What's perverted with it? If it makes you uncomfortable then don't go 🤷‍♀️.
You should try out Finland. All together naked in the sauna, running naked in the snow together and back again. They even beat each other with branches. It's quite liberating all these naked bodies with no judgment and no sexual connotations.

I used to belong to a naturist club with a steam room. It was small with not much seating room, limited visibility on account of the steam, mixed sex and obviously naked. Everyone was on their best behaviour, cheek to cheek!

I swam naked in the lake until I was 8 and so did my friends.

OP, I also go to a spa resort in Austria/Germany/Switzerland most years and was quite shocked my first year! However, it was a 'swimsuit optional' one so not too bad. But it was quite odd to see everyone stark bollock naked in the sauna and then sit at the next table at dinner a couple of hours later. It's just a cultural thing though isn't it; I don't think I ever thought of it as being 'perverted'.

The last couple of years I've got a bit more used to it, but still wrap my towel around me. So actually more covered up than I would be in a swimsuit, which suits me fine. It's the sweating in a swimsuit they take objection to.

Steam rooms are better. The steam blocks the view!

Nothing beats an alpine spa though, does it. Have the best time!🌲