To be sick of this, think it is utter bollocks and the next generation are actually bang on?

[Usunshine]

I’m in a professional role. Historically this career (like many others) is stay late, keep working, do absolutely everything you can for your job. I had a conversation with my manager in a 1:1 review meeting where he said I was doing fine, couple of bits to work on but all good and happy with performance etc. A normal review meeting really.

He then proceeded to say next I want to really mount the pressure, I want you to be feeling you have too much work and have to say to me ‘(Eric), I can’t take this on, it’s too much.’ I want you to almost feel like there’s so much on that you are non stop. That will mean next year we can talk about more money. It will mean late nights of course. We want to keep building more and more.

I have worked hard in my life. I’m late 30s and I’ve actually done the whole putting your life on hold to pass professional exams, worked late and weekends. I’ve done all that. I watch younger versions of me clocking off at bang on 5:30 and be called snowflakes by older members of the team. But I think good for them. For fucks sake why am I being told I have to have so much pressure I can’t manage the workload?! Why is that necessary? In my opinion the younger generation has it right. It’s not lazy logging off at half 5 to play tennis or go for a drink. It’s sensible. There’s no prizes for working yourself to the bone. Interested in others thoughts on this as I had a completely different view a few years ago.

Sounds like you have a terrible manager tbh. I'm 43 and yeah I will work late occasionally if needed but definitely not every night, life is way too short!

I think you are deliberately misunderstanding me - perhaps law was poor example. What about an NHS consultant orthopaedic surgeon. Works long hours fulfilling NHS and training role - and then does some private work on the side to supplement income. Makes 200k.

but there are plenty of jobs in which people choose to work insanely hard - and get paid commensurate with their labour. Deservedly. There are plenty of assholes who do this. Sometimes inefficiently. Doesn’t mean that there isn’t a correlation between that work and that income.

there are always going to be people who pick work over home. There are always going to be people for whom the drive for more income is greater than the drive for more free time. I don’t think either is wrong - but there is an opportunity cost at both ends of the spectrum and I don’t think it’s reasonable to assign moral judgement to either.

I think a lot of people get caught up in this bubble, and you are right, it isn’t worth if. But they realise too late when they have compromised even their health to try to get ahead. Never go that far.

Work life balance is important. Work can give occupation and sense of purpose, be social, give rewards etc but there has to be a balance. Some people can realise this too late and waste many years / sacrifices / life on a job only to realise that you are just an employee. Thread below with posters experiences.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/work/4982564-when-did-you-realise-you-are-just-an-employee-and-loyalty-accounts-for-nothing

I agree. You do the hours you're paid for. Life isn't just for work. If you work hard when you're there, you owe an employer who would not hesitate to get rid of they needed nothing.

I'm a mental health nurse in the NHS. My job is 9-5, but I used to miss my break and often work doing paperwork until 7pm. Now I turn my laptop off at 5. I'll occasionally stay on if it's something urgent, if it's anything to do with safety, or if a patient really does need me. Anything else, hell no. And when I do this, I make sure I record it as time owing. And I make sure I take my 30 mins unpaid break. I say if I'm getting overwhelmed and ask for support.

I'm good at my job. I work hard. I prioritise patient care. I've progressed quickly. And I don't feel run down, or too stressed, because I make sure I have time to relax at night, which makes me a better nurse for my patients anyway!

Eric can fuck off. He's clearly not going to give you a payrise - it's just the carrot he's dangling to get you to burn out.

I worked for an 'Eric'. I made a sideways move in to his team with the promise of interesting work and great promotion prospects. The job involved managing more junior staff members and at my first review meeting Eric told me that I was 'mothering' them all too much. Apparently I should have intentionally set very tight deadlines for everything to keep them 'focussed'. He'd observed that I never asked them to work in to the early hours to turn a job around overnight, never booked internal meetings before 8.30am (official start time was 9am), 'allowed' them to leave on time even if there was a task that was not quite finished. His advice was that I even if not really necessary to meet external deadlines I should always work the team as if we were running late. Not long after he gave me a telling off for agreeing to temporary flexible start/finish times for a colleague who's wife was pregnant and ill on hospital, so that he could visit her a few times a day. Apparently his wife would need to learn to cope without him there all the time when she had a baby to look after, so really it was better for them if he couldn't be there now so she could get used to it.

I was made redundant earlier this year. I was routinely working 8-6.30 or more

My new job is more of a commute, but I actually have more time and I enjoy it.

Don’t put up with the blackmail

I find all of this a really weird culture.

We have wider family members who were incredibly hard working at school, then uni, then law school, then got contracts with the prestigious London law firms etc - feted and celebrated and talked about in awed tones throughout.

And yet, they were the least likely to be present for things, family events, supporting others, unable to commit to plans, always having to arrive late/leave early. Damaged a lot of family relationships by being so clearly prioritising work over home, even for weddings etc.

Despite clearly putting a lot in store in being seen as "successful" and earning salaries the rest of us couldn't ever achieve, they were also the last to be able to get on the property ladder, because they had to rent close to work, and buying was limited to areas that are expensive due to commuting needs (always at ridiculous times because of the hours we're discussing).

I regret absolutely nothing about working steadily throughout, never flying high or earning big bucks, but also having a life, my own free time, finding it easy to change my hours around having kids/caring responsibilities. Not being tied to expensive locations means we could get on the housing ladder earlier and live somewhere we wanted to. We've probably evened out some of the finances in that alone.

I have no interest or desire in working in a toxic culture where someone gets to make you feel rubbish for leaving on time, having hobbies and downtime. I certainly won't be encouraging my DC down those sort of paths.

Evil genius 😂

Amen to this. He expects you to work all hours on the promise of more money - it might be £500 for all you know. I think he's having a laugh and no I wouldn't do it and would tell him as much but at least find out whether a pay increase is both a realistic option and worth your while.

He wants you to carry other people who don't pull their weight . If he wants more work out of you then he can pay you more or he can fuck off .

Tbh I think it's up to you in terms of your priorities for career progression vs investing in other areas of your life. But I would be asking him clearly for a time frame and what the compensation and accompanying title change would be as you know you're capable and motivated but you also know your worth.

There's always a gamble with things like this that you could easily knock your pan in for months on end and they could keep dragging it out/ go in a different direction/ decide you're coping as you are and let other staff go and leave you with their workload. So I would be wanting very clear expectations set out at the onset so that you can go back and argue it if it seems like things aren't materialising.

But yes in agreement with others he sounds like an arse who has no value for the overall welfare of his staff.

@SorryNotSorryForWhatISaid I used to work for a public body that attracted people who had worked in those kind of corporate circles but wanted to leave for a better work/life balance.

They were often burnt out and broken by the time they got to us. We had to work at rebuilding their confidence and perception of what was normal. It was so odd and not what I would want for myself or anyone I cared about.

Spot on OP.

Anyone can make money treating others like shit.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that if you do this to the degree expected by Eric, you will have the same chat next year and the money won't be there due to 'cutbacks' or whatever lame excuse. Or you will get the rise but so will those clocking out on time. Either way he will make a fool out of you.

And this is why I will never do over my own hours unless I'm confident I can take them back another time, or that I KNOW it'll benefit me (for example, I worked until 1730 on Friday just to finish something off I knew would be a ballache this morning).

Feels like a very American way of working. A good work/life balance is important to me. More important than getting loads more money, especially when that carrot is dangled ALL the time yet rarely comes to fruition.

Your company should have a risk assessment for workplace stress. Send it to your boss with a record of your conversation and cc HR. I would be horrified if one of our managers had this conversation with an employee.

Ask Eric to put it in writing!

Your boss sounds like a twat and I am lots of people boss and 47. I don't work stupid hours and I don't expect them to either. I want my team to work hard, to focus, to get shit done... between the hours of 9 and 5:30!!

Absolutely

And it's so odd that these are the people who in their late teens/early twenties are held up as "winning at life" - what a prize to win.

I'm by no means lazy, or a low achiever by most people's standards but I honestly feel grateful that I was never in that A stream and that the benefits of my mediocre career path feel far more advantageous given that I've had quite a nice time and never been put under that much pressure. I've had a work/life balance,.some flexibility, self esteem etc the whole way through.

Likely that 'Eric' is after a promotion/better pay himself and this is why he is pushing everyone so he can make himself look good.

Toxic managers/companies are not with losing your health over.

Do you hours and leave him to his delusions.

My first thought too.

I'd let Eric deal with his pressure and find a new job preferably run by Gen Zers

My DS and DIL are not having it they want to enjoy their lives and I agree. DS said all I did was work, work, work. I was a single mum I had to.
They have moved out of Surrey and bought a small house in rural mid wales. They both work online and are working 3 days a week each. I applaud them. They have plenty of time to just live and enjoy the countryside.

He then proceeded to say next I want to really mount the pressure, I want you to be feeling you have too much work and have to say to me ‘(Eric), I can’t take this on, it’s too much.’ I want you to almost feel like there’s so much on that you are non stop. That will mean next year we can talk about more money. It will mean late nights of course. We want to keep building more and more

Has Eric been on a Management course lately?