To be sick of this, think it is utter bollocks and the next generation are actually bang on?

[Usunshine]

I’m in a professional role. Historically this career (like many others) is stay late, keep working, do absolutely everything you can for your job. I had a conversation with my manager in a 1:1 review meeting where he said I was doing fine, couple of bits to work on but all good and happy with performance etc. A normal review meeting really.

He then proceeded to say next I want to really mount the pressure, I want you to be feeling you have too much work and have to say to me ‘(Eric), I can’t take this on, it’s too much.’ I want you to almost feel like there’s so much on that you are non stop. That will mean next year we can talk about more money. It will mean late nights of course. We want to keep building more and more.

I have worked hard in my life. I’m late 30s and I’ve actually done the whole putting your life on hold to pass professional exams, worked late and weekends. I’ve done all that. I watch younger versions of me clocking off at bang on 5:30 and be called snowflakes by older members of the team. But I think good for them. For fucks sake why am I being told I have to have so much pressure I can’t manage the workload?! Why is that necessary? In my opinion the younger generation has it right. It’s not lazy logging off at half 5 to play tennis or go for a drink. It’s sensible. There’s no prizes for working yourself to the bone. Interested in others thoughts on this as I had a completely different view a few years ago.

I think you'll find previous generations rejected this idea too. I'm 69 and never bought into it. I worked to live, I didn't live to work.

This long hours culture / presenteeism is old fashioned. Progressive companies are more about efficiency and aiming for a four day week!

Keep the discussion firmly focused on your objectives and how you’re meeting them, because that’s the evidence you will presenting if you’re passed over or up for promotion. That should be what matters for your company’s bottom line. If there’s investment possible that will make your role more efficient, eg training, new software or hardware, do suggest it. And in the background look for another job.

Eric is not a good manager. Eric can stuff this nonsense up his backside. He wants you to basically give yourself a nervous breakdown and become a workaholic on the vague promise of more money next year maybe. Eric is having a laugh. Don't listen to Eric.

No thanks Eric, if your life is so empty you have nothing but work to love for, that’s up to you. Take your power tripping self off and I’ll be leaving at 530 from now.

Thanks Eric, please can you put that in an email and cc HR? No, I thought not!

Sorry to be blunt, but if you (God forbid) dropped with stress tomorrow, you'd be replaced by some other poor sod within a month and the world would keep turning.

I remember when I was about 20 and work were pushing for me to take time of in lieu of overtime that my lovely. lovely manager pulled me aside and said "take the money, the regional manager is looking at his bonus not at what is best for you or the company" ..he wasn't wrong.

Eric is a dinosaur.

I am in my 50s in a professional role. I worked late and logged in over the weekend because there was an emergency that had to be sorted otherwise it could have resulted in adverse publicity, plus I didn't want my team to have to work instead. I wouldn't do it as a matter of course and my boss seemed a bit miffed when I said I was taking a couple of hours back on the next Friday so I could go to the gym and buy groceries.

No way would I do it as a matter of course. A working week is usually 35-40 weeks, if someone is concentrating during those hours and doesn't have too many meetings, then that's more than enough to get the best of them.

Why would Eric want people working to the point that they are making mistakes and past their best? Seems pretty silly to me.

I'm in my mid 40s and think Eric is a fucking prick. If any manager spoke to me like that I would be emailing my concerns to HR.

I had a manager like that once who gave back comments on a complex but not urgent document at 6pm on Friday and asked to see the new version at 9am on Monday.

I told them in very firm terms that unless is was critical there was no way I was asking my team to work over the weekend. We would pick it up first thing on Monday and they woulld get it as soon as possible on Monday morning.

Think I'd be telling Eric where to stick his job.
In my previous role I worked my hours. We did 10-12 hours a day. No way I would do more and tbh we weren't expected to.
I'm from the older generation (older than you OP) but don't and never brought in to the notion of working until you drop.

My immediate thought was “lawyer”!

But YANBU. It’s a toxic work ethic. My MIL (former nurse) thinks that the junior doctors are such whiners, that they just got on with it all in her day. When I suggested that they were overworked then and shouldn’t have been, she replies “nonsense!”.

It’s this never take a sick day mentality. What for? Why is there morality in not looking after your own health and happiness for a company’s profit margin?

In my old company, we used to get “employee of the month” awards and the winner was always someone who stayed way past official office closing times - often until 9 or 10pm. The company under-employed people and under-paid people and the owner owned three large and luxurious homes and was frequently at one of them and not in the office.

Your manager is an utter twat, no more or less. The culture in the company is completely wrong. People working habitually more hours leads to exhaustion, burnout and less work being done.

Were you a lawyer, accountant or the like?

I'm 51 and thought that if I worked my socks off (lawyer) I would both progress in my career and be appreciated by senior management.

Nope nope and nope again. It just meant I was the sucker who had a nervous breakdown at the age of 45 and very nearly destroyed my family life (and indeed mine as I became suicidal) in the process as I had an exceptionally vulnerable pre-teen at the time.

I agree with a PP who said to tell Eric to show you the money first and then you will decide if it's worth it. Bet he can't come up with the goods because it's all a load of bollocks anyway.

Yes, this is some kind of corporate bullshit. You are meant to work your self into the ground, for your job, to prove yourself, to prove your worth. Such utter nonsense.

For sure - there’s absolutely no point in driving yourself like that if you want to prioritise down time / don’t measure your success by financial metrics. I applaud that / think it’s almost certainly more healthy for your family life and sanity.

But some people are genuinely fired up by the buzz that their income gives them. Some people have historical financial family stuff that makes them need to have a significant buffer - and some people just really like the lifestyle that comes with it.

I think both are personal choices - I do think that it’s unreasonable for someone who’s really happy to leave their job at 5 on the dot every day and then complain it’s unfair that corporate lawyers pulling 80 hour weeks get paid so much more…

Oh and the best thing ever said to me when I was busily killing myself from my firm was something DH said;

'You CAN sack your employer, you know'.

Sorry Edited- wrong thread

yup

YANBU, I think the kids totally have it right. Especially in their case because sometimes now even decent-paying jobs (in London and SE at least) barely pay for a roof over your head let alone some kind of lifestyle and fun to which they are totally entitled, I might bloody add. Why should they labour night and day and yes, not every job , certainly office ones, really require that, it only needs doing because workplaces don't hire enough people to do all the work?

That’s professional service firms for you. It’s the model.

If enough people reject it they’ll have to rethink, but at the moment there are just enough people who fall for it that they keep going.

A lot of corporate lawyers are only working long hours because a project has been poorly managed, likely by someone who prefers work to home. There is no reason why deals need to close on the early hours of the morning unless there is an international time zones element.

I deliberately did not go into that area of law but in my brushes with it, observed it was 90% bravado and bullshit and 10% action. Corporate lawyers always think people admire them and that they are some kind of elite. In reality the work is crashingly dull while really stressful at the same time.

I agree OP, I've always thought people should just push back and almost 'work to rule'. The impact would be huge and would give the government and employers a kick up the backside.

I guess you have the option to not do the extra and say it's too much and look for another job. Employers do need to be careful with employment law.

Work to live, don't live to work.

@Usunshine

Start looking at other jobs, check out salaries for your expertise. Apply for those jobs.

I was reading how really successful people climb the ladder faster and more easily by doing this.

The correct response in your meeting when Eric says:

"I want you to be feeling you have too much work and have to say to me ‘(Eric), I can’t take this on, it’s too much."

is to immediately say,

"You are satisfied with my work. Great. Now Eric, I can't take anymore on, its too much".

Whats he going to say? You are underperforming? He's just said you are great and he's happy with your work.

If he then does anything else, you take it up with HR as bullying.

Ask Eric how many late nights he plans on working.