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Iraq to lower the ‘age of consent’ for girls to nine

485 replies

Waitingforfriday75 · 09/11/2024 07:35

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/women-and-girls/iraq-poised-to-lower-the-age-of-consent-for-girls-to-nine/

Posted here as it gets the most traffic. This is by far the worst news I’ve heard all year. Imagine at the age you were meant to start secondary school instead being forced to marry and have sex with an older man. Completely disgusting!!!

Iraq to lower the ‘age of consent’ for girls to nine

A new law proposed by ultra conservative Shia Muslim parties seeks to strip women and girls of their rights

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/women-and-girls/iraq-poised-to-lower-the-age-of-consent-for-girls-to-nine

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8
BlueSilverCats · 11/11/2024 19:56

@EasternStandard similar quotes to a lot in the Bible. I can provide some for you if you want.

In my opinion,(not an expert or religious scholar) The Qu'ran has similarities to the Old Testament. Ultra religious sects tend to embrace those parts more and ignore the rest. All fire and brimstone. Whereas the vast majority of the Western World (that still believes) is more focused on the New Testament.

Justiceeternal · 11/11/2024 21:04

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 19:38

I appreciate those who are offering insight and I'm wondering about this post, if anyone would like to say more

All of these quotes are out of context and not accurate to what it actually says in Quran. Context and accuracy matters. The first one is about infidels who spread corruption on earth and make war against God and his apostle. The second one is regarding polytheists who break treaties. The third one is for when in battle. ‘AS FOR THOSE who are bent on denying the truth and on barring [others] from the path of God - all their [good] deeds will He let go to waste;

I would urge anyone who is interested to do their own research. These quotes have been used by extremists to justify the bigotry towards Muslims.

I am not a scholar so please don’t take my word for it, do your own research. Anytime you are asked to believe something negative about a group of people, please find out the truth yourself and don’t fall for propaganda.

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:01

Justiceeternal · 11/11/2024 21:04

All of these quotes are out of context and not accurate to what it actually says in Quran. Context and accuracy matters. The first one is about infidels who spread corruption on earth and make war against God and his apostle. The second one is regarding polytheists who break treaties. The third one is for when in battle. ‘AS FOR THOSE who are bent on denying the truth and on barring [others] from the path of God - all their [good] deeds will He let go to waste;

I would urge anyone who is interested to do their own research. These quotes have been used by extremists to justify the bigotry towards Muslims.

I am not a scholar so please don’t take my word for it, do your own research. Anytime you are asked to believe something negative about a group of people, please find out the truth yourself and don’t fall for propaganda.

The first one is about infidels who spread corruption on earth and make war against God and his apostle.

Who does this include? What counts as 'war against God and his apostle' for example

Justiceeternal · 11/11/2024 22:10

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:01

The first one is about infidels who spread corruption on earth and make war against God and his apostle.

Who does this include? What counts as 'war against God and his apostle' for example

As I’ve said do your own research. It was about wars against oppressive regimes almost 1500 years ago, not now!

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:14

Justiceeternal · 11/11/2024 22:10

As I’ve said do your own research. It was about wars against oppressive regimes almost 1500 years ago, not now!

Well that depends on how things are interpreted now. Religion survives for those 1500 years for a reason, teachings are passed to the younger generation.

I am asking for info, on here.

Justiceeternal · 11/11/2024 22:21

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:14

Well that depends on how things are interpreted now. Religion survives for those 1500 years for a reason, teachings are passed to the younger generation.

I am asking for info, on here.

“slay the infidels wherever you find them ... and lie in wait for them ... and establish every stratagem (of war against them).” - can’t find this in the Quran in the Surah it says it’s in. Puzzled 🤔 Also I am not a scholar so someone else can answer your question if they are. ‘Spread corruption on earth’ is important too.

Are you asking in good faith? I do think if it was in good faith you would look at the multitude of sources out there - legitimate unbiased sources not on Mumsnet where the goal of some people is to dehumanise Muslims in order to continue the genocide.

In this day and age the ease with which you can find all information is wonderful. Why ask on Mumsnet?

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:24

Justiceeternal · 11/11/2024 22:21

“slay the infidels wherever you find them ... and lie in wait for them ... and establish every stratagem (of war against them).” - can’t find this in the Quran in the Surah it says it’s in. Puzzled 🤔 Also I am not a scholar so someone else can answer your question if they are. ‘Spread corruption on earth’ is important too.

Are you asking in good faith? I do think if it was in good faith you would look at the multitude of sources out there - legitimate unbiased sources not on Mumsnet where the goal of some people is to dehumanise Muslims in order to continue the genocide.

In this day and age the ease with which you can find all information is wonderful. Why ask on Mumsnet?

Edited

Why not? It's a conversation on the topic

I have found @Fizzle1 responses useful and interesting for example.

Justiceeternal · 11/11/2024 22:27

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 22:24

Why not? It's a conversation on the topic

I have found @Fizzle1 responses useful and interesting for example.

I agree @Fizzle1 has been very fair and impartial.

wrongthinker · 12/11/2024 10:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

wrongthinker · 12/11/2024 10:27

the number 1 thing (especially in non muslimcountries) that create a fertile ground for this type of extremism are the types of generalised comments that you made previously - which is why it’s so important those comments are corrected.

Sorry, what? It's comments that cause terrorist attacks? Not grooming/abuse/extreme ideology/promises of glory? But people making comments about how terrorism is scary?

Forgive me for my scepticism but this does not sound remotely true.

Fizzle1 · 12/11/2024 11:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Respectfully, I didn’t make your use of those words - although thank you for clarifying your context.

A poster before your removed comment asked you if you would feel as horrified as being called Islamophobic as you would for being called antisemitic and you responded specifically saying that you did identify as Islamophobic - you later corrected within our dialogue that you were fearful of extremism - which is a perfectly valid fear and I’m glad you made that clarification.

And you also specifically said you saw this as Islam vs the west in relation to the current conflict in Gaza, which is why in my original response to you I said I disagreed with you that this conflict should be viewed that way.

I am glad to read your follow up statements, and you’ve clarified that you do not believe in hatred or discrimination, more you are fearful of Hamas as an actor in this conflict.

And while the use of those words were not the reason for the removal of the post as confirmed in the above reply, I didn’t make up that you used them in the deleted post.

JusteanBiscuits · 12/11/2024 11:20

Are you outraged by the states in the USA where this is legal? Are you outraged by the child marriages in the US? Or only in Muslim countries?

AnotherChildFreeCatLady · 12/11/2024 11:26

EasternStandard · 11/11/2024 19:38

I appreciate those who are offering insight and I'm wondering about this post, if anyone would like to say more

Have you ever read the Bible? There's a whole lot of hatred and torture in there too. ALL of these books were written by men to subjugate and control other people, predominantly women. ALL of them should be treated as such.

Fizzle1 · 12/11/2024 12:02

wrongthinker · 12/11/2024 10:27

the number 1 thing (especially in non muslimcountries) that create a fertile ground for this type of extremism are the types of generalised comments that you made previously - which is why it’s so important those comments are corrected.

Sorry, what? It's comments that cause terrorist attacks? Not grooming/abuse/extreme ideology/promises of glory? But people making comments about how terrorism is scary?

Forgive me for my scepticism but this does not sound remotely true.

Well of course it isn’t as simple
as that -its about the wider community and environment, which then leads to the ability of individuals to groom others and create a ground for extremism to spread. Which starts at the community level and calling out and removing low level generalisation and “othering” of communities.

No not saying “terrorism is scary” - that would be silly, but for example - people in a European community going around saying “oh Muslims are terrorists” or “Islam and Hamas are the same thing” then more people in the community start agreeing with that person and think “yeah you’re right - I don’t really feel comfortable around them” then people within the community without thinking about it start to isolate Muslims, perhaps young Muslims feel ashamed and struggle with their identity, they feel “othered” from their current society - it creates vulnerability and then someone with horrible intentions comes along and says “you don’t have to put up with that, why don’t to listen to some of my things I think it would help you” then a young person starts to be radicalised. It’s a process that takes years of course.

Its’s the first step of the cycle, take for example, Iraq, and the creation of ISIS. So as I’ve mentioned before, in Iraq we have important tribal and religious structures - so America invaded and dismantled the previous governance structure (which favoured the Sunni minority under Saddam) - now with considerable support from America and their allies, a Shia majority governance structure was put in place. In a governorate called Anbar, which was already quite poor and lacking services, ISIS were able to take considerable control by capitalising on discrimination and marginalisation of the Sunni minority. Many Sunni’s faced discrimination on some sectors of Iraq as kind of “pay back” for the way Saddam treated people during his reign, they did not have access to basic services, they were marginalised, and “othered” by a lot of Shia majority (who themselves had been massively discriminated against under Saddam’s regime) they were fed up of being treated badly and were vulnerable- and a fertile ground was created for someone to come along with false promises, to tell them “if you follow me we can protect your family, we can make sure you have money, we can make sure those people who have been blaming you can’t do this anymore” and then over time ISIS leaders were able to groom and basically brainwash vulnerable Iraqis and others to thinking they were the only ones who could make things better for them.

So as I mentioned in my previous post, if we can take away and stop that initial step, of “othering” by being inclusive with our language, making sure minorities are included in society - it can go a long way to removing the building blocks of extremism. And the generalised comments about Islam, while on their own probably seem really silly to us, they can build and build to create these levels of discrimination - so at the basic community level we can all take actions to call out these generalised comments to stop the process before it starts.

BabyEl · 12/11/2024 15:01

Rosscameasdoody · 11/11/2024 08:45

That’s not what this poster said. She didn’t say ‘the Jews can’t be trusted’ she said the state of Israel as an actor in this conflict can’t be trusted. It’s not the same thing at all. So many Jewish people are appalled at what Israel is doing, but you’re probably not aware of that because it doesn’t fit your inflammatory and inaccurate narrative.

So you can trust Jews who are against the war and all the other Jews are bad Jews is that right?

all the right thinking Jews agree with you?

wrongthinker · 12/11/2024 15:12

people in a European community going around saying “oh Muslims are terrorists” or “Islam and Hamas are the same thing” then more people in the community start agreeing with that person and think “yeah you’re right - I don’t really feel comfortable around them” then people within the community without thinking about it start to isolate Muslims, perhaps young Muslims feel ashamed and struggle with their identity, they feel “othered” from their current society - it creates vulnerability and then someone with horrible intentions comes along and says “you don’t have to put up with that, why don’t to listen to some of my things I think it would help you” then a young person starts to be radicalised. It’s a process that takes years of course.

Okay, well a) sounds like nonsense to me. I don't think you could get most people thinking that they should go and behead some people because some other people were mean to them, so I think this is over simplified at best. And b) even if that's true, I never said anything like your examples, so blaming me for creating terrorism is absolutely out of pocket.

wrongthinker · 12/11/2024 15:16

you responded specifically saying that you did identify as Islamophobic - you later corrected within our dialogue that you were fearful of extremism - which is a perfectly valid fear and I’m glad you made that clarification.

I actually made that distinction clear in my original post.

EasternStandard · 12/11/2024 15:19

AnotherChildFreeCatLady · 12/11/2024 11:26

Have you ever read the Bible? There's a whole lot of hatred and torture in there too. ALL of these books were written by men to subjugate and control other people, predominantly women. ALL of them should be treated as such.

To what extent do those passages resonate today?

Fizzle1 · 12/11/2024 15:33

wrongthinker · 12/11/2024 15:12

people in a European community going around saying “oh Muslims are terrorists” or “Islam and Hamas are the same thing” then more people in the community start agreeing with that person and think “yeah you’re right - I don’t really feel comfortable around them” then people within the community without thinking about it start to isolate Muslims, perhaps young Muslims feel ashamed and struggle with their identity, they feel “othered” from their current society - it creates vulnerability and then someone with horrible intentions comes along and says “you don’t have to put up with that, why don’t to listen to some of my things I think it would help you” then a young person starts to be radicalised. It’s a process that takes years of course.

Okay, well a) sounds like nonsense to me. I don't think you could get most people thinking that they should go and behead some people because some other people were mean to them, so I think this is over simplified at best. And b) even if that's true, I never said anything like your examples, so blaming me for creating terrorism is absolutely out of pocket.

Fair enough, you can think it’s nonsense if you like, you’re not a reintegration specialist working with people associated with armed groups.

Although just to highlight, it’s not someone being “mean” to someone, so they decide to pop of to Syria and chop someones head off as yes I agree that would be absolutely ridiculous!

What I explained is the beginnings of a systematic process of exclusion, and can be really effectively tackled at the community level. There’s actually a really good Netflix show from Sweden that captures this process well if you’re interested it’s called Caliphate (based on the Bethnal Green trio) but it’s done really well I thought, and follows the story as the lead actress is radicalised and decides to join ISIS.

Nobody said you stated anything like in the example, or blamed you personally for creating terrorism, which also I agree would be ridiculous as I doubt anyone on mumsnet is single handedly creating terrorism. The example is from one of my home countries in Europe and nothing to do with you, as I don’t know you.

Fizzle1 · 12/11/2024 15:34

wrongthinker · 12/11/2024 15:16

you responded specifically saying that you did identify as Islamophobic - you later corrected within our dialogue that you were fearful of extremism - which is a perfectly valid fear and I’m glad you made that clarification.

I actually made that distinction clear in my original post.

In which case, as is the beauty of the internet and the debate process, we will agree to disagree on that point.

Lentilweaver · 12/11/2024 15:37

If you ever have time @Fizzle1 I would love an AMA on your life and work.

AnotherChildFreeCatLady · 12/11/2024 16:04

EasternStandard · 12/11/2024 15:19

To what extent do those passages resonate today?

With the fundamentalists? Quite a lot I would say, just like with the quran. Don't you see all of the idiots in America opposing gay marriage or abortion, simply bc of some outdated passage in the bible and haven't you seen the affect it has had on people?

My point was simply that grabbing some texts from a religious book and saying "look how violent", can be applied to any and all regions. Religion is a virus, and all of them are EQUALLY horrible.

Scirocco · 12/11/2024 17:25

wrongthinker · 12/11/2024 15:12

people in a European community going around saying “oh Muslims are terrorists” or “Islam and Hamas are the same thing” then more people in the community start agreeing with that person and think “yeah you’re right - I don’t really feel comfortable around them” then people within the community without thinking about it start to isolate Muslims, perhaps young Muslims feel ashamed and struggle with their identity, they feel “othered” from their current society - it creates vulnerability and then someone with horrible intentions comes along and says “you don’t have to put up with that, why don’t to listen to some of my things I think it would help you” then a young person starts to be radicalised. It’s a process that takes years of course.

Okay, well a) sounds like nonsense to me. I don't think you could get most people thinking that they should go and behead some people because some other people were mean to them, so I think this is over simplified at best. And b) even if that's true, I never said anything like your examples, so blaming me for creating terrorism is absolutely out of pocket.

Well, if it sounds like nonsense, you'd probably be very disappointed to learn that it's a well-researched and widely recognised phenomenon as per international counter-terrorism, de-radicalisation and re-integration experts. Isolation, exclusion and marginalisation can set the scene for vulnerability to radicalisation.

Justiceeternal · 12/11/2024 18:43

wrongthinker · 12/11/2024 15:12

people in a European community going around saying “oh Muslims are terrorists” or “Islam and Hamas are the same thing” then more people in the community start agreeing with that person and think “yeah you’re right - I don’t really feel comfortable around them” then people within the community without thinking about it start to isolate Muslims, perhaps young Muslims feel ashamed and struggle with their identity, they feel “othered” from their current society - it creates vulnerability and then someone with horrible intentions comes along and says “you don’t have to put up with that, why don’t to listen to some of my things I think it would help you” then a young person starts to be radicalised. It’s a process that takes years of course.

Okay, well a) sounds like nonsense to me. I don't think you could get most people thinking that they should go and behead some people because some other people were mean to them, so I think this is over simplified at best. And b) even if that's true, I never said anything like your examples, so blaming me for creating terrorism is absolutely out of pocket.

I’ve been thinking about your deleted post where you shared your fears of Muslims. I would like to share my fears too. I am afraid that Israel will keep killing men, women and children in Palestine and Lebanon until they are exterminated. It’s is currently happening right now. I am afraid that Israel will keep expanding their border for their announced intention of a Greater Israel thereby killing even more people. I am afraid that Israel will keep provoking Nuclear power countries and it’ll escalate to World War 3 and possible nuclear disaster for everyone. This is a very real possibility.

Justiceeternal · 12/11/2024 19:07

BabyEl · 12/11/2024 15:01

So you can trust Jews who are against the war and all the other Jews are bad Jews is that right?

all the right thinking Jews agree with you?

To quote a Tiktocker: ‘Nobody cares that you are Jewish, sweetheart’. We only care about ISRAEL currently committing a genocide! I would add that we do notice all the people who show a depraved indifference to the suffering of the people in Palestine and Lebanon too. It’s a great filter.