AIBU to not forgive family members? TW: CSA

[Throwaway22223333]

I’ll try to give an overview of what happened without too many telling details but trying not to drip feed. I’m really struggling to get perspective on this and obviously people close to me are very involved and therefore biased.

A few years ago (as an adult) I reported historical CSA by an uncle to the police. The police took the case to trial and he was actually convicted. At the time of the CSA he was married to my mother’s sister, they divorced a few years later for supposedly unrelated reasons (I don’t really know).

Some family members who I was previously very close with did not believe me (even as an adult). They actively assisted his defence lawyers with his defence during the trial, gave evidence against me and even once the jury found him guilty believed that he was wrongfully convicted. They gave evidence and information to humiliate me and discredit me in court, all banded together and gave evidence of particular things I know aren’t true and suspect they deliberately lied about to assist his case. I believe their belief was along the lines that I was delusional/crazy/mistaken rather than flat out lying - not sure which is worse tbh.

anyway, after his conviction 2 further victims came forward (that I was unaware of before then) and the whole thing unravelled. They now realise they were in the wrong and have been deeply apologetic (to their credit) but I haven’t engaged with them at all so haven’t really unpacked everything that happened.

some years have passed and I know other members of the family (who did support me) have reconciled with them and would like me to as well. I’m still not sure that I can even speak to them let alone envisage a future where we have a loving or trusting relationship.

I’m wondering if others feel that they could forgive this? Or have been in this situation before?

YABU - I would forgive them
YANBU - I wouldn’t be able to

I know that your DM would like a united family but I'm pretty shocked she of all people thinks you should forgive and forget.

If you've managed without them all these years and built a decent life I would not bother. If you were to hear they were all dead tomorrow ask yourself if you'd care. It's really up to you and your wishes.x

I quietly decided for myself that I don’t like the concept of asking for “forgiveness”
I’ve substituted the word “acceptance”
In times where I’ve been badly treated and at a loss - I feel it’s more manageable to “accept” that the person did this bad thing, the situation will be forever there, and all I can do is try and move forward myself from that point, and in the way that’s best for me.

There isn’t “forgiveness” that will somehow take away the thing that happened.

(My aged DM recently asked but “could I not be kind” to someone who had been unforgivably awful to me. (Not CSA).

In these situations, protect yourself, remove yourself from situations, don’t engage or involve yourself with people that were a source of pain.

Protect yourself OP, do what’s right for you. Please don’t be swayed by anyone asking you to reconcile (which will be for their reasons, not yours).

Many families want to stop the victim making a fuss, without actually addressing any of the problems. It makes them feel better if they can sweep it all under the rug; but when they fail to address the issues, they they aren't making their family any safer for children.
So no, I won't go along with that. I'd tolerate being at the same family event as them, but distance and tolerance is as much as they can reasonably expect.

Hi again. Thank you for the context. Fantastic to hear that you received counselling. Sorry I had assumed you were very young and alone. Your aunt clearly knew it was possible you were telling the truth and either protects her husband or herself, and yes I believe she's brought up your teenage or child behaviour on purpose. Even if you were the town bicycle it doesn't mean you weren't raped or SAd . If your mum is aware of this then she should be having words with her sister about failing to protect you and frankly a word with herself. The cousins I am less likely to have hatred for, depending on their ages and how dependent that are on your aunt and uncle. As I would find it impossible to forgive your aunt then you can't be one happy family. It is your aunt and uncle who destroyed it all. Not you. It's not hard to not stick your dick or fingers where they aren't supposed to be. After all men don't put them in blenders do they. I'm speaking as a dad of 3 girls.

I don't think it's a matter of being reasonable or not, but of giving yourself what you need at whatever stage of the healing process you are. Forgiving is not about them, it's about you: let yourself be, accept what you need and don't question yourself.
What you went through is one of the hardest things a person can suffer (let alone a little one!). You show incredible strength by confronting it and breaking the cycle. You deserve to go at your pace, to be gentle with yourself, to take care.
Forgiveness will come if/when it comes and it will feel right to you, from within.
Good luck 💐

I have been in a similar position, not where I have been a victim of CSA but where I have spoken out about a convicted family member who others new about and didn't share with me despite him spending time around my children. I was made out to be disloyal to the family and cut off by a few members including a couple of very close ones. I have forgiven them despite a lack of accountability or apology but I love them from afar and have no contact. For me, this kind of betrayal of trust makes it very difficult to build a positive relationship from and unless they put in the work to rebuild the relationship, you are not obligated to do so. Do what you feel brings peace to you personally and allows you to live in alignment with your true feelings and values. Xx

Do what you need to do to support your healing.

You definitely don't owe them anything, including forgiveness, but if forgiveness in the form of letting it all go helps you, you can do that without having contact with them again.

Ive name changed for this but I’m coming at this from a family members perspective.

My husbands half sister accused their father of abusing her when she was younger. At first we didn’t know what to think. It was hard to believe he would ever be able to do something like that, but on the other hand it was a case of what if he did.

My husband and his half sister weren’t close and he didn’t have a close relationship with his father growing up. But from what we gathered, she was a very troubled individual, was off the rails growing up, a very intense individual. Part of me wondered if the reason she was like this was because of SA.

During the course of the investigation, it was clear there was absolutely no evidence to suggest he had done anything, the police dropped the case and there were a few things that made me and DH doubt her story and as a mother, if anyone had ever touched me as a child, they wouldn’t be allowed within an inch of my daughter. Yet she would constantly ask them to babysit and call her father when she needed help etc.

So she cut us all off and none of us have heard from her since.

It’s so hard as we weren’t there and have no idea what has happened. I don’t believe her story but also, my fil will never have unsupervised access to my children. Luckily due to a distant relationship, that situation would never crop up.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, it’s very hard as an outsider to know who or what to believe. Despite not knowing him well, I couldn’t imagine him ever being capable of something like that. If called to court my DH and his other sis would have probably cast doubt over her story too. Because they can only say what they know.

Im glad your abuser was convicted op and I’m glad the family are now believing you xx

I voted YANBU because any forgiveness would be completely up to you and certainly not something that you are duty bound to provide. CSA breaks families and that is down to the perpetrator alone. Sadly, your aunt and cousins compounded the damage and they will have to live with that.

Your mother needs to accept that she can’t have her united family back (the one in which her child was abused!). Her own sister conspired against her child in the most appalling and damaging way. The only reason that I am not astonished that your mother wants reconciliation is because I know that many people are desperate to paper over cracks in order to meet their own needs. It certainly isn’t what I would be asking of my children though!

Do hold your own course, whatever that might be. Just the one that feels right for you. You don’t owe anyone anything at all. You are doing so well and sound incredibly insightful as a person.

im so sorry you’ve been through so much. Follow your gut. What do you instinctively want to do? Or not do?

I agree that some of the cousins may have been seriously manipulated by him, however they are still responsible for their behaviours.

saying you were an intelligent but friendless child would make me assume possibly you were more vulnerable to abuse and adult manipulation.

I would suggest that your mother needs to find her own anger at the people who hurt HER CHILD so grievously, not to further pile on the hurt and the pain that her child has already, and is, suffering.

She needs to make like a mother, and put her own WANTS aside, and centre her daughter's wants and needs, and support her in doing everything she can to further these.

You have suffered enough. You shouldn't be asked any more.

It’s obviously up to you but I can wholly imagine how difficult it would be to accept that about your own father. People would go to almost any lengths not to believe that.

I think if they had individually fully apologised and talked things through with you 1:1, I might have more understanding of why they lied

I would try to understand why they felt the need to lie and perjure themselves to try and get past some of the sadness, rage, and frustration that their actions caused.

But the person asking you to forgive them would get 'They haven't admitted what they did. They haven't apologized for what they did. They haven't admitted to perjury and intentionally lying to the police and the court. They haven't attempted to make any amends to me for what they did'.

And even if they made an apology I could accept I wouldn't have further contact with them as they are deliberate, untrustworthy liars, willing to swear on a Bible then lie and lie and lie again.

there is a difference between acceptance of what has been done and cannot be undone (abuse)

and forgiveness for what has been done and can be undone (cover up)

their lies can be recanted publicly and formally, it may not be enough for another trial but it would be a correction of the record and public acknowledgement of their lies and the truthfulness of your account

if they want a publicly viewable reconciliation and forgiveness to restore their reputation then they really need to make a public act of restoring both your reputation and your right to (full) justice

There's a halfway house here, acknowledge that they were taken in by him and that they are very sorry for defending him and accusing you enough to be civil and have polite conversation at family gatherings but not to the point where you return to your relationship before the disclosure. It is complicated and people can be very taken in, saying sorry from the heart may have taken some guts too, partly because they would have felt so bad. You don't need to forgive but to understand and be civil basically

I have family members like this (we are NC now). Abusers groom partners and family very effectively. It sounds like, you’re right, they were manipulated. But they still behaved horribly.

That said, being in a position where my family members still support the abuser and will never change or be willing to apologise, if I was in your shoes (if you think you can) I would hear them out for an apology. It can be very healing to lay things out in the open and also have the chance to tell them how it hurt you as well. They also have healing to do. But hearing someone’s apology and forgiving them are not the same thing. You can have compassion for the horrible situation they were put in (it’s possible they also witnessed or experienced abuse but cannot yet face it), without saying all is forgiven. But only if that feels like a safe thing to do. If not, just say no sorry, I’m not at that place right now.

As for saying you didn't sleep in certain rooms, I think it's entirely plausible that they didn't remember you sleeping there if that wasn't the norm eg you usually slept in your cousins room but on a singular occasion a bed was made up in the living room, other in the study and so on because they are remembering the normal times whereas due to the abuse that occasion is etched into your memory - I certainly don't remember sleeping arrangements at my cousins even though I know I quite often stayed there because the details are of no consequence. Hope that makes sense.

I'm really not defending them but I'm trying to shed light on why years later memory isn't perfect (my mother also swears blind it was my brother doing something when it was me!) memory is patchy so often and we want to think people are good especially a husband /father, not random relatives.

No need to forgive as I said, but understand the situation isn't black and white

Your aunt doesn’t have a leg to stand on here. She chose to defend herself in this situation, because the truth was too horrific to bear. So she blamed you, lied about you, to save herself from confronting who it is she married. When more victims came forward she couldn’t maintain that fiction anymore. But she was a grown woman choosing to do this. The children, while no longer children during the trial, I could be more understanding of, to a degree, but not suggesting in any way that you should be. For your Mum to put this on you to heal the family rift is deplorable. You didn’t create this. Your uncle did, and by extension, your aunt. You don’t owe anyone anything and it’s not your responsibility. You’re the victim here which your Mum seems to have forgotten.

I'm shocked your Mum wants you to forgive and move on.

Your Mum should be completely on your side.

This. You are not responsible for anyone else’s feelings or guilt. I’m so sorry for all that you’ve been through.

YANBU. You only forgive if feel you can, no one should pressure you.

For what it’s worth I had therapy about my parents being abusive. During the therapy I realised that “forgiving” was actually me letting go of the anger I was carrying, rather than letting them off the hook.

If you get to a stage of letting go you still won’t be obligated to rebuild relationship with them.

Your mum has forgiven them because it probably makes it easier to forgive herself.

Your parents are supposed to protect you from danger and they (hopefully unknowingly) left you in the hands of a predator. That's a big thing for any parent to get their head around.

I personally think what your aunt and cousins did is unforgivable. They aided a paedophile and essentially branded you a liar on top of your trauma from being sexually abused.

If they wanted to do the right thing they could admit to perjury and get a retrial so your uncle would hopefully serve a custodial sentence; that would show true remorse.

OP I'm so sorry for everything you've been through and are still dealing with.

I'm staggered your Mum has forgiven them but agree with others that it's probably a way of forgiving herself and even a move towards "can't we just pretend this never happened"..... 🙄

I think you are best carrying on as you are. You can reiterate to your Mum that you acknowledge their apologies (personally I wouldn't say 'accept' just acknowledge) but that's as far as it will go. Any rift isn't your doing and to even imply that it is is horrible. Stand firm, you have done nothing wrong.