To think I can’t control my child

[abangintoon]

I know I’m going to get pasted but I’m kind of hoping there might be some sympathy amongst the inevitable flaming.

He’s four. If I ask / tell him not to do something and generally he ignores me and carries on.

I have read the books and researched this and have tried

telling him what to do rather than what not to do - doesn’t work, still ignores you and carries on doing his own thing
a sanction or consequence, either doesn’t care or throws a tantrum but it doesn’t change his behaviour at all.
speaking firmly, speaking sternly, shouting - doesn’t care. Sometimes laughs.
Giving choices - doesn’t work, just says no to both if it’s something he doesn’t want to do or just ignores you.

I am sure there are more.

I know it can be a difficult age. I am not really posting for advice but more to ask if anyone else just accepted they had no power at all and sort of got on with their day. Fine at preschool by the way.

Have you got a children’s centre nearby? At the one near me you can put in self-referrals for support with things like this. Might be worth a look?
I’m sure you’re doing a great job, 4 is such a tricky age!

I will stop you right there. You wouldn't be here asking for advice if you didn't care and some kids are harder than others. I have 2 children and one is extremely easy to parent while the other one is a nightmare. So I can't stand smug parents who say that it's all about parenting. To some extent it is, but some children are extremely hard to parent and if you haven't had one yourself you can't understand how hard it is. Talk to your GP to get him assessed just in case, you never know. I was sad and relieved at the same time when my son got his diagnosis aged 4. Sad for him, relieved that his behaviour wasn't due to me not getting it right (and god knows I had tried EVERYTHING except violence ofcourse).. don't despair OP, there is Light in the tunnel💐

It’s really hard to know if he’s normal and I’m just exceptionally run down and exhausted and taking it all personally or whether he is more challenging than many. I suspect probably somewhere between the two. I didn’t ever think parenting would be this filled with conflict.

https://progress-checker.speechandlanguage.org.uk

This could be useful for you to help gauge if further assessment is needed.

when did this behaviour begin ?

You're on the munsnet naughty step.

Sometimes small children laugh when they are told off because they are embarrassed and that is their way of coping with it.

This is a terrible idea.

It doesn't sound like poor parenting at all OP. You sound thoughtful, caring, and like you're really trying. Some children are just trickier to parent whatever the reason. You sound tired and fed up, be kind to yourself.

Hes 4 you give him warnings etc then you pick him up and move him to what you've asked eg bring him to bathroom to brush teeth etc.

Here I come upsetting all the MN mum's.....

But you sound just like I was. Nursery no problem, all milestones met, very smart. Everything directed in my presence mainly.

The behaviour you describe and your feelings are almost exactly like my experience.

It was not until much later, age 9, it was obvious to me and my son was diagnosed ADHD/ Autistic. He ' hides' it alot and doesn't fit the stereotype really. Incredibly oppositional, something called PDA which comes with autism was picked up.

There's not enough information for me to say this is certainly the case. There are lots of familiar things here though.

ND or not, for most mums dealing with spirited little Tinkerbell's as they get older it gets better. 4 is a difficult age.

I don't think it's anything to do with you. I'm quite sure of it. Your exasperation is because nothing works.

Have you read Ross Greene? He writes a great book called the explosive child. Think that's good for anyone dealing with this type of challenge.

If the nursery aren't seeing anything ( very common where milestones are being met) you may just have to sit tight for a few more years.

Stop blaming yourself for a start. It feeds into the shame/ stress cycle which you don't deserve. You're certainly not an incompetence mum from what I guage here.

Most kids, even the really challenging ones, have an innate desire to be compliant and please parents ( as long as being directed). I think when this is all going awry you should consider other possibilities.

This is a good idea. The health visiting team goes to to 5 and then school nursing team can sometimes help.

They can also have courses like parenting puzzle which sounds onerous, but you often get to meet some parents going theough similar

Remember that the parenting things you do eg consequences/time outs, they don't produce instant results.

Parenting can take months or even years to show results.

. I didn’t ever think parenting would be this filled with conflict.

It is. Young children are selfish tyrants with very little empathy. There is a lot of conflict to socialise them fully & it take years of willing yourself to remain calm and give an air of patient boredom when imposing consequences over and over again

😆

This sounds really hard OP. I have a 2.5yo DS and although obviously he's younger, I have some of the same behaviours from him - if we shout at him for doing something serious he just laughs. He thinks it's hilarious and can't seem to grasp that we are angry. I have found that taking a more playful approach works really well with him (I don't always feel like it, but it helps!) For example, if he tries to poke the dog, I put on my 'funny' voice and say "Are you poking the dog?! That means I'm coming to poke YOU!" and then I can gently poke/tickle him. That way he stops the behaviour and gets redirected to something that helps him connect with me. If that sounds like it might be worth trying there's a book called Playful Parenting by Lawrence J. Cohen which is brilliant and has lots more advice on this approach. Another book I read was Hunt, Gather, Parent by Michaeleen Doucleff - she had a very challenging relationship with her preschooler which she managed to change through applying some of the techniques she explores in the book.

I wonder also whether you get any time together where you just get to enjoy him? It sounds like you're (completely understandably) frustrated and tense and it's possible he could be picking up on that. I wonder whether carving out some 'special' one on one time together where you just get to enjoy doing something together might help to shift things for both of you, especially if you give him the power to choose what you do during that time so that he has control? That might help him feel better/more in control and therefore more able to comply with what you're asking the rest of the time but it might also be a big help for you in helping you connect with the things you love about him.

I hope it gets better for you soon, it sounds like a really tricky thing to try and navigate.

Parenting is fucking hard. Like really, really hard.

I do think there could be signs of neurodiversity there. One thing that jumps out is his compulsion to stand on things. It’s sensory, or impulsive behaviour but he needs to learn that some things you can stand on, and others you cannot.

If he’s doing well at nursery, you might not be able to make any referrals to any agencies for support, but where I live there are a few options. Talk to your GP or find a health visitor somewhere perhaps?

You’re not a bad parent, otherwise you wouldn’t give a shit. 💐

The best advice I was given was if you make a threat you follow through with it, no matter how it impacts the rest of the family. So only ever make a threat you are happy to carry out. And remain consistent.
He may not seem like he cares at the moment, in the situation, but if he keeps missing out on things he enjoys then eventually he will learn and adjust his behaviour. It's not going to be an overnight miracle, it may take years, but it's better to put in that time and effort at 4 then give up and have an out of control 14year old who doesn't listen to you.

I was going to ask about his level of understanding because my DS will only be 3 soon and he does understand very well these things. It obviously doesn't mean that he won't ever do it again but he does understand.

Is he meeting his milestones? Any concerns from pre-school?

I would look at low demand parenting. As some have mentioned on here whether he ends up with diagnosis or not learning the techniques for a parenting a child with PDA will help, most of all it could help break the cycle.

I've had 4 reasonably compliant DC, I count myself very fortunate! It was their nature not my "amazing" parenting.

Brilliant advice, thank you! [proceeds to take notes herself]

To an extent this sounds normal. Tell him once, again with a stern tone and if still no response physically make him do it.

Obviously there's all the choices and distraction, pick your battles, time warnings , routines and natural consequences but he basically has to learn that what you ask is what he will do, in a calm and unemotional way.

So if he won't get dressed, put toys away, come to.you, get down off the bookcase, etc, you physically make him do it. It's exhausting but he should learn fairly quickly if you're consistent. Don't get annoyed, shout or threaten punishment, just calmly enforce your will. You can let some things go but once you've decided to tell him to do something, follow through every time.

If he's fine at preschool it suggests there's no real reason he can't follow instructions.

Even if he has some neurodiversity you need to find a way to manage this. You have said a few times that you are not able to physically stop him from doing things. What is it that stops you? You don’t need to answer on here but think about it. He needs consistency, can some help you with that? Dad? Family and Friends?
If there is some developmental delay, what age do you/nursery think he is functioning at? You need to aim any behaviour support to where he is developmentally instead of his age. So if he functions around the age of 2 what would you expect a 2 year old to be able to do?
It sounds like he might need supervising a bit more at the moment, this will help catch the good behaviour as well as the bad.

You say he's fine at preschool, so the problem is with you. Don't ever ask a child to do something or if they want something - tell them. You're in charge, and he will learn from you.

Look at SuperNanny on YouTube. She gets results.

First of all, I understand how relentless this can feel.
I find the Super Nanny videos really helpful, have a watch she's really good and It's always worked really well for me.

For the really naughty behaviour, I would be using the naughty step Yes, you get laughter and running away to begin with for 10 minutes. Then, you may get another 20-30 minutes of anger,shouting, lashing out etc from them. Eventually, they will get upset realising you mean business. Not long after, when they've had enough you will probably get a hug and an apology.
It's exhausting, I can't deny that, but believe me, it's worth putting the work in now whilst they are small and can do minimal damage. He is only going to grow and the option of placing him on the naughty step will be out of the question.
You need to feel mentally and emotionally strong to follow this through, so pick your moment wisely.

Like others have said, follow the cues first
Is it hunger, thirst, toilet, boredom?
Do they need a quick run/scoot around the block to get rid of that excess energy? Some pens and paper to do some artwork?
I found stepping in before things escalated to the naughty step level very helpful.

Also, when one of mine was nearer to your sons age and was being difficult and not listening, I found choosing a children's youtube video with the same lesson involved very helpful. Having it told to them in cartoon form then speaking about it afterwards seemed to help the message sink in.
Worth a try.

With lots of patience, perseverance and support from preschool/HV you will get where you want to be.

P.s try remember to smile when things are good, he might be reacting to your tiredness too. Remember preschool is going to be fun and exciting, so try and keep the positivity going when you get home. Lots of hugs and cuddles to reinforce his good behaviour.