To think I can’t control my child

[abangintoon]

I know I’m going to get pasted but I’m kind of hoping there might be some sympathy amongst the inevitable flaming.

He’s four. If I ask / tell him not to do something and generally he ignores me and carries on.

I have read the books and researched this and have tried

telling him what to do rather than what not to do - doesn’t work, still ignores you and carries on doing his own thing
a sanction or consequence, either doesn’t care or throws a tantrum but it doesn’t change his behaviour at all.
speaking firmly, speaking sternly, shouting - doesn’t care. Sometimes laughs.
Giving choices - doesn’t work, just says no to both if it’s something he doesn’t want to do or just ignores you.

I am sure there are more.

I know it can be a difficult age. I am not really posting for advice but more to ask if anyone else just accepted they had no power at all and sort of got on with their day. Fine at preschool by the way.

Thanks. I do think ADHD is a distinct possibility tbh.

Pick him up, stick him in a safe, light, warm confined space, hold the door for 4 minutes. Ignore him for that time. Let him out, if he’s not behaving, back he goes.
and repeat.

Sometimes kids are exhausted by compliance at school and do act up at home.
It's not uncommon behaviour but it is tiresome.
It's also maybe a slight marker for neuro diversity - in which case the usual disciplinary behaviours from you would be less effective.
Look up some parenting tips for demand avoidant children and see if it resonates.
Failing that - it will change again as he gets a bit older and better at self regulation.

There are children on the planet who do not have ADHD.. just saying!

Mine were like this.

Control is a complicated concept when it comes to small children.

Often the easiest way to control their behaviour is to not let the situation happen in the first place.

So for example, if they hit the dog, you set up a dog flap and a barrier at the kitchen so they physically cannot get to the dog. (Locked door, whatever).

Then (if this is something you want to work on) you put them and the dog in the garden and encourage them to use kind hands when stroking him.

After about 3 years it sinks in.

I had about three years where I simply didn't go in shops with them because they'd tantrum. (I had twins).

It isn't realistic to expect children at this age to obey you.

They are more likely to obey at pre-school ir nursery because it's not a familiar adult and all the others are doing X so they figure they'd better be safe and do X.

It really doesn’t work. I mean yes it keeps him somewhere for four minutes but doesn’t change his behaviour.

True. A lot of this kind of behaviour is just with the territory of being 4.

The suggestion about smacking him is just ridiculous. Come on now you can't be serious 🙄😡

Please don’t do this.

Very true and some kids DO have ADHD.

It could be ADHD or just being four, I don’t know. I suppose the problem is I don’t really enjoy being with him as I just have no control at all, he just ignores me. Makes life quite hard.

Sounds like sensory seeking or other need to ‘order’ things. Baby DS 1 could not tolerate tall things. They had to be knocked over.

I couldn’t control him, so I controlled his environment. Made life much easier.

He’s an absolute joy now- 29 gainfully employed and a delight. Probably ASD, though only diagnosed with dyspraxia and dyslexia.

At one point I thought I’d need bars on his bedroom window. Total nightmare.

What did you do?

I'm guessing you didn't respond by saying "NO NO NO!!! STOP IT!!! WE DO NOT WALK ON THINGS!!!" Then the very second he even tries to do it again, immediately get hold of him and frogmarch him home, ignoring the inevitable tantrum whilst sternly saying "I SAID NO AND YOU DID IT AGAIN, SO WE ARE GOING HOME RIGHT NOW".

The consequences have to be immediate and drastic.

Other tactics are distraction, novelty, humour, rewards and routines.

Some children are harder. And I think the terrible twos are not as bad as the fearsome 4s.

@abangintoon if he's fine at preschool he's probably nt. Otherwise I was going to say that one of my DC was like that but he's autistic and they noticed quickly in preschool that he was a bit "off" in his own world.
To reassure you I can say that children who have a stable home environment will act out at home because it's their safe space. They know they're loved whatever happens. Some kids are really tenacious testing limits. Is he the same way with his dad or just with you?

Would he understand "family rules/routine" on a poster or wipe board? EG Playtime outside from x to y, dinner at z, Bedtime at x, That might mean the battle happens over the board, rather than every single.day over the same thing.

Can you limit what you say "no" to? So, if it's low-level/mild naughtiness just ignore.

If he's doing something for attention, can you redirect eg if he's banging his hand on the table ask "Will we get a better drum?" and go pick up something else to clatter (ideally one for you AND one for him). If you can turn naughty behaviour into a game that YOU are also playing then it gets rid of a lot of the battles. Obviously not if it's destructive or dangerous but that low level stuff.

Does he respond well to praise?

Does he do better if he can go run about the park for a while before home?

Can you keep him super-busy so he doesn't have time.to get into the bored-naughtiness zone, if that's what sometimes happens.

Sometimes you'll still have to say "no" or "do this", and.always stick with it. But if life doesn't feel like a constant war it'll feel easier.

Not verbatim but it makes no difference.

He doesn’t understand that the reason he’s being taken home is because of what he did. In that instance I didn’t see what happened until he’d done it and another kid had punched him.

But when I’ve taken him home in the past he just doesn’t care.

Yeah, I knew I'd get eye rolls about mentioning ADHD. But if you don't like the label, then it can still be addressed that traditional discipline doesn't work for all children. Someone mentioned making sure they aren't thirsty or hungry and this is good simple advice. Some children do find it more difficult to register that is what they need. Making sure they have enough sleep, some children would still benefit from naps at 4 and simply being overtired causes the difficult behaviour. Pre-plan distractions/bribes you are happy to give generously. If mine couldn't wait for dinner they would usually be distracted with ice cubes/frozen peas/ice lollies, which didn't spoil their appetite. Offering to take photographs of toys they wanted in shops always seemed to work really well too. List the things that are likely to trigger clashes and bad behaviour and possible solutions in advance can help, because it's hard to think of them in the moment. He may manage to cope at pre-school but to process that he isn't in control there and has to follow rules, he might have a strong need to have autonomy and be in control afterwards, so try and give him easier options to be in charge when you pick him up. Which way should we go home/what snack do you want to choose from this selection etc

He wouldn’t understand any of that @Saz12

I do think he has some problems processing things.

Hi, firstly I wonder if he has heard you, and/or has a slower processing speed. Using declarative language rather than shouting or direct demands could be really helpful. There’s a handy little book which might help you with some ideas for phrases: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Declarative-Language-Handbook-Thoughtful-Challenges/dp/1734516208/

“I'm not sure if you heard me”
”I’m worried you missed something important”
”I can see that you did not answer me”
”I noticed you’re still doing x”

My 4yo has a diagnosis of PDA so I am very familiar with working with a child who does not respond to consequences/praise. He is either distressed or completely unbothered. The trick is to make everything his idea, and prioritise his autonomy. Kids do well when they can. The compliance at school may be about masking, or just the herd effect of having a group to emulate. Maybe take a look at the PDA Society website. You’ll find a way through to him. It just might not look like everyone else’s way through to their child.

I feel for you. I work with children and feel so sorry for some parents as I just think… “I don’t know what I’d do if my child behaved like that, it must be so hard.”
No advice really, but sending love!

Yeah I often say did you hear me and he says yes. Definitely just ignoring me.

It is exhausting and just no fun at all. I feel awful saying this but I hate my life.

Reading with interest and I'll post more when I have time. My DD was 4 in August and we have the same issue. She laughs at everything. Doesn't seem to care about any consequences. Bedtimes are the worst; she won't get ready for bed, runs away from us, hit us, pinches her brother. Basically anything and everything to be naughty. She is mostly ok at school (we've had two minor things reported, one disobeying the teacher deliberately while looking her straight in the eye and the other hitting her brother) and doing ok on the 'academic' side. We are broken. This can't go on, I literally think about just walking out and not coming back. All I have to fall back on is the hope that's it's a phase.
Sending hugs, OP.

Oh god me too @FoxtrotSkarloey . He’s nice out and about and seems very sweet then at home is just awful.

When you say he doesn't understand and he doesn't care, how literally do you mean that?

Most children will act like they don't care about punishments (or they'll chuck a huge tantrum). That's normal.

What do you mean when you say he doesn't understand? Can you give an example?