Would you let your 4yo choose whether to be vaccinated?

[Dramatic]

I'm talking about the flu vaccine not the infant vaccines.

Talking to a mum outside school this morning, our kids are both in reception and we were talking about them getting the flu vaccine at school in a couple of days. She then said her daughter won't be getting it because she asked her if she wanted it and her daughter said no. Is this a normal thing to do? I hadn't even thought to ask my daughter, surely they're far too young to understand the decision they're making? Would you put that choice on a child this young?

Dear small child... Would you like someone to stick a needle in your arm that will hurt and make you sick for a few days? No? Okay then.

She is essentially hiding her anti-vax views behind false autonomy. Mine decided it was against their human rights for people to take or share photos of them without consent from about seven. This is something that they were able to rationally decide for themselves. The same child has every single vaccine going - they made their own decisions on the later ones because it was an informed choice. A small child is unlikely to make an informed choice. (I'm also sure if I'd told mine it would prevent them from getting really ill and possibly dying, they'd have had no issue even at four.) Mine was always horrified that Roald Dahl lost a child to measles.

At 4? No. DS had his vaccines.

Now at 11? He refuses point blank, won't have the nasal flu vaccine, let alone a needle. He's autistic and prone to meltdowns. It's one of the many things that need addressing - along with washing, changing his clothes etc. But at he moment we're just pleased if he goes to school within half an hour of the start time and comes home happy rather than dysregulated and not ready to hit us, and it's taken a lot to get to this point, and we can't physically force him to have a vaccination.

There's a huge gap between blind obedience and needing to be wrestled to the ground to take a vaccine. Most 14 year olds have the maturity and trust in their parents to understand that if their parents are telling them to have a vaccine, they should have it, even if they don't fully understand why they
need it.

Bodily autonomy applies to things like if they want a cuddle or like to be tickled, not essential medical or hygiene decisions. At 15, it's my/our job to tell SD she needs to brush her teeth if she's not doing it, to tell her to get her vaccines and to push her in the direction of the shower once in a while. Not to do so is neglect.

Yeah I’ll ask my 6 year old if he wants insulin next time he eats….. some things are non negotiable for a reason-usually most medical things!

I think you need to realise that you are somewhat lucky that your children do what they are told without questioning you.
I hope I have brought mine up to make good choices, but they certainly don't do everything I ask/tell them to do.
Part of me does wish they did exactly what I told them but another side of me is proud of them for trying to find their own way and stand up for what they think.

Vaccines not an issue, they have those willingly, but I am not sure if I would force them to if they flat out refused.

It's not blind obedience, it's them trusting me to make a good decision for me, yes I got the "aww do I have to?" To which I said yes and listed all the reasons why it is a good idea to which they then said ok. I don't just say "you're having it, end of story and I'll hold you down if you refuse" but it's the same with anything isn't it? Like most 12 year olds would just not bother showering if it was left up to them, but you "make" them go in anyway because they need to have good hygiene, that doesn't usually involve you physically shoving them in to the shower and hosing them down.

No obviously.

i

Of course they question me. Like all parents, sometimes they do as they are told without question and sometimes it's a fight.

If I tell DD tonight, "brush your teeth" and her response (as it sometimes is) is "I don't want to," I'm not going to say, "Oh well, never mind then!" She has to brush them, or have hem brushed. I've never held her down and forced the brush in, but it's not a debate and it happens eventually, even if it is a battle to get there and requires a bit of threats and bribery occasionally. The approach with SD15 and vaccines is much the same.

You don't teach body autonomy and then say except A,B,C. It's simply not possible. The problem is people are making assumptions from their personal family dynamics not considering the majority of parents don't use obey the way you are referencing.

By not considering that you are simply not going to have resources to support families and teens in engagement with decisions like the flu shit etc.

If you're allowing your child to choose whether to brush their teeth, shower, or accept essential medical treatment, that's neglect. Bodily autonomy cannot be prioritised above ensuring your child's health and hygiene are being cared for effectively. No child will thank you as an adult for allowing them to make decisions which will have lifelong impacts on their quality of life.

If you have a child who will fight so hard against your instruction to get a vaccine or brush their teeth that they need to be physically restrained, then the problems with your relationship with your child are beyond the scope of this discussion.

What you described earlier was blind obedience. There were other posts which did alleged medical professionals manhandling a child, completely unacceptable and illegal.

I use engagement parenting and pretty much have from about age ten. Giving appropriate choices, information and autonomy develops self confidence, self trust and capacity.

I never had a child who didn't want to be clean but going in the posts here I do suspect some would go as far as physically intervention which is horrendous and unacceptable, unless for life saving or life altering injuries or situations.

I was sent the consent form for DS (15) I filled it in and told him what day to expect it! He asked if it was a needle or the nasal spray, (nasal) shrugged and said ok

And both flu and severe tooth decay can be life threatening so what's your point?

If you prefer to give your child the impression they have a choice as to whether they brush their teeth or get a vaccine and you are secure enough in the belief that they will make the right choice then that works fine for you.

I'm quite sure that if I presented my children with a choice of whether they wanted to brush their teeth, or shower in the case of my eldest, they'd probably opt not to, and I would then have to admit that it hadn't, in actual fact, been a choice and they need to do it whether they want to or not, that would lead to an almighty argument and a loss of trust in me by them because I've lied and pretended they had a choice when actually, they did not.

If you give your children a genuine choice and you'd accept them saying they've decided to no longer brush their teeth, then I don't know what to say to you as we have completely different standards for what children need and deserve.

Proper flu isn't 'minor'

A cold is 'minor'

Oh well

With those stats there's no argument...

Oh. Wait.

Exactly where on earth did I say anything about basic hygiene being optional? .

I clearly stated appropriate consent in appropriate situations. At 14 an optional vaccine in my opinion is an appropriate space. They are at an exceptional low risk, the application is minimal invasive in etc so yes when I offer choice it's an authentic choice.

Are you saying you would physically manhandle your teen to brush their teeth ?

Because I don't think any parent would be stupid enough to use physical intervention without expectations of a physical reaction!

No, I wouldn't have to because my kids know that there's wiggle room on some things and I might be negotiated around on certain issues, but there are some basic rules that just have to be followed and if I tell them to brush their teeth they do it, albeit sometimes reluctantly.

I don't know how you would get to the place with your 14 yo where you tell them, you need this vaccine, it's necessary and will keep you safe, in the case of HPV from cancer which is potentially lethal, and they are so adamant that they will not get it that your choices are them not having it or physical restraint.

About a third of “proper flu” is asymptomatic! Not saying it can’t be serious, but it isn’t always.

And choosing to have or not to have any vaccine is a minor medical decision - it’s hardly consenting for a heart transplant.

Sorry, my 14 year-old doesn't even get the choice on flu or covid vaccines. So my 4 year-old will definitely not be getting the option.

Is she really antivaccine and just doesn't want to take the adult responsibility and pushes it on her kids? You didn't mention if she's getting her vaccination.

Of course not. FFS. 4 years old???

No. Next question.

HPV isn't a high risk for men, it is documented in less than -14 deaths annually here.

If my sons choose not too take the vaccine then I respect their right.
They can change their mind up to 25, after that it becomes less successful vaccine.

I simply responded to the posters detailing alongside this rhetoric of I say they do or you make them. Well as a person who spends a lot of time with teenagers, that's not exactly how it generally goes.

That is why information and facts need to be widely available.

Posters are referencing medical staff committing what would be considered assault where I am, it is frightening.

You respect your sons' right to potentially give their female sexual partners cancer so they don't have to get a tiny scratch on their arm?
Bloody hell. Please get them warning tattoos so women know not to sleep with them without protection.
Serious internalised misogyny and male privilege pandering there.

Well I have seen some stretches but that puts lyrca to shame.

The HPV is available as an option for young men in my country only recently. It is available for girls longer.

Literally 99% of men sexual active wont have it, so quit the drama.

I completely disagree with your blame a man for a choice made in their health. Nice to see your automatic assumption their sexual partners would be female.

And given my stance on body autonomy I will ignore the childish tattoo remark. Have some sense.