To think Kemi and Nigel will likely win the next UK election after making a pact of some kind and fighting on an immigration / identity politics platform?

[MumtananoBay]

Especially after Trump’s win today.

labour has a tiny lead at 27% today (6th nov, politico.eu polling )

tories have 27. Reform has 19.

so that’s a possible 46/27 which gives a right wing team up more MPs than Labour has now. (OFC in any pact they won’t get all those votes)

this Labour majority is paper thin. Everyone hates Keir.

Yes, so the priorities are not wokism but eating and heating. May be only rich celebrities can afford those views anyway. For some people would be a priority but must are probably just from radical campus politics that influence very young new voters. Do not go on full denial mode on this. Normal hard working people are 🙄 with wokism even when the economy is doing better.

I think the fact that Starmer is a relatively inexperienced politician is an issue here. He seems to be pretty good as an administrator but shocking at politics and communication. He really needs an Alastair Campbell figure. Preferably one who doesn't lead us into an illegal war though.

Me too

Yes user above normal people are concerned about normal things like why have council labour one sold of council housing to housing associations. In the past for one pound per house And why was Angela Raynor on for such a short interview about taking right to buy out of reach of working people

Right to buy has been a disaster for this country, IMO. It was a massive vote winner for the Tories but 40 years later most of them are in the hands of private landlords and you can't get a council house for love nor money.

At least those houses are still social housing - unlike the millions that were sold to individuals at knock down prices to bribe their owners to vote Tory.

Your argument would hold water if the sample showed 100 disliking Keir. It doesn't. It shows more people thinking he does a bad job than does a good job. Specifically, that the discrepancy between the two, is -38. To get that result means 69% feel he does a bad job and about 31% feel he does a good job. It's not pedantry to suggest 31% is not the same as 0%.

But you're not actually interested in a discussion, are you?

I'm interested in good, useful, respectful discussions, with people who have ideas and can clearly put them across and come to a changed perspective after.

Clearly that rules you out so I will just ignore you from now on.

You pedant.

Looks like 53% of people voting here actually, way higher than I expected

You mean you just want people who’ll change their mind and agree with you. Challenging someone’s obvious lack of objectivity with statistics is hardly pedantic.

I said culture. Not genetics.
BTW Judaism is the root of Christianity, you may recall that from school.

I think most people buying council houses didn't sadly know it was thanks to the conservatives they got a good discount they would presume it was thanks to labour And if labour had charged a bit more to sell their homes off there would have been more money to build new ones

Thanks goodness for that.

Of course they knew. It was Thatcher's flagship policy and did her an enormous amount of good, votes-wise. I sit next to someone at work who bought her council house and thinks the sun shone out of Maggie's arse.

It was particularly egregious because she wouldn’t allow councils to use the proceeds to build more houses.

Exactly.

Do you ever drive through a council estate and play 'spot the private homes' - tidy gardens hanging baskets shiny windows - they should have sold the lot of em and started again, old council houses are expensive to maintain for councils - if you own the gaff it's well worth the effort

No, because the former council estate here is now entirely privately owned. They’re solidly built houses on generous plots and are sold the minute they hit the market.

What the pro Rwandan brigade also forget is that at 500 people per year, Rwanda would not have put people off, around 80k cross the channel in small boats in year, the 79500 people would have still stayed here.

People die crossing the channel, that hasn't acted as a deterrent or across the Med either, where '000s have died.

Also, at least one ex Border Force chief has said the long term solution is international co operation, an example would be Germany changing its laws of storing boats.

Didn't James Cleverly also say the policy was "Batshit" ?

Anyway, legal migration far outstrips boat crossing, at one point, reaching 764k migrants under Badenoch's watch

Is it pointless because you're not willing to have your views challenged? That would explain why you've completely ignored the question I asked you in favour of continuing to push your narrative.

If you think it's pointless then why even engage at all?

I hope they do. Reform’s policies are excellent. Labour are a fucking shit show. It’s time the U.K. realised there are more parties than labour and Tory.

Reform’s policies are excellent.

Even the one to exempt all frontline NHS employees on less than £50k from income tax? Where’s the money to fund that going to come from? The same place as the money to fund raising the personal allowance to £20k I suppose.

It's funny how the right wing posters on this thread have repeatedly moaned about the left shutting down debate, yet are happy to throw around meaningless phrases like "wokism" and "normal people" to do just that.

I mean, what is woke? As far as I can tell it's applied to virtually anything the right don't like.

Take EDI as an example, as that's usually branded as "woke". Reform want to remove all EDI legislation and I'm sure there was an attempt to remove it from medical schools in America too. But EDI is vital in many areas, like medicine or the corporate worlds .

The reason things like endometriosis and menopausal care are so awful, that medications often have more adverse and severe side effects on women, or that Black women are more likely to die during child birth than white women is because medicine is not equal, diverse or inclusive.

But because the right associate EDI with specific l, often fringe, elements they class it all as woke and want to do away with it. Do "normal, hardworking" people not care about their health outcomes?

However, speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Mr Saunders, who was chief immigration officer for ports, said "unfortunately what the prime minister is trying to do is not feasible".

But former immigration chief Kevin Saunders said the changes would not deter illegal migrants from coming to the UK and stop small boat crossings.

This is the main problem for Starmer. But also being an outlier as the EU, US and Aus are all much more hardline. Especially now Trump is in.

I can't see why anyone would want to be the country that is that outlier. It's a madness at this stage, but that's what was voted in. We will see it in cost as money is handed to other countries and numbers / deaths in the channel.

Even the one that will reduce our energy security and increase our exposure to market volatility by making us even more reliant on natural gas (a resource that even the north sea operators own analysts have assessed as "not being viable long-term")?