Friend is so bitter!

[Cornishcockleshells]

We are all mid/late40s. Friends for decades and live in close proximity for years.

A year and a half ago my friends dh left her for a woman he met at work. It has blown up the lives of my dear friend and her dc ( late primary school aged) until this point she had the most lovely bohemian life possible, and was happily married and her life she says has fallen apart.

We are part of a group and she has had the most amazing support from all of us. Her parents live a few minutes away and have looked after the dc, whilst we have taken her out and organised things for her, listened to her, fed her day in, day out. She is still devastated and depressed, and I know it’s been so difficult for her to come to terms with.

My aibu is more nuanced. In the last few months she has started coming out with really unkind statements. Words to the effect that she feels so bitter that she had my life once and now it's all gone.

I took her out for a spa day and she complained about it all day, she didn’t even thank me, it was very costly and miserable day in the end. Just lately she says oh your life is so perfect, or comments unkindly about a new sweater and even said she feels sorry for my dh!

Whilst I understand this has been awful, I am struggling to know how to navigate her bitterness and anger, it’s like my life mirrors her old life (which it did to be fair) and reminding her of everything she used to have/lost. Some of our other friends have started to distance themselves because it’s become too much.

My friend refuses to have counselling, even though it would greatly assist her process the changes happening to her.

Her financial situation will not be awful when everything finalises, but obviously she won’t have anything like the life she had before.

I feel like this is really coming between us now, but I don’t want to be insensitive, this has been so hard for her I am not surprised she is angry but it feels misdirected, maybe this is normal stage, if so, when might it end?

wwyd?

Thanks

I have no problem believing that it’s him that stopped her working. He wouldn’t be the first man to fall for an intelligent independent woman, push her into. Subservient role, lose respect for her, and then move on to another independent intelligent woman. No doubt blaming the first woman for what he did to her.

She’s obviously not ready yet, but the the sooner she realises that the best revenge is a life well lived the better.

Maybe but the odds of this happening compared to the odds that someone who thinks "ooh, rich man, I don't have to work" are not good. I've never known the former. If I had £1 for every time I've met the latter I'd be a millionnaire.

Obviously no one expects him to stop working but the OP says that he was a good father before but is hardly seeing the children now because he is always going away with the OW. A decent man and father would prioritise his children over a new woman or other leisure activities when he did not have to work.

The equal pay act wasn’t until 1976 and is still being actively enforced ffs

Your point being? It's 2024 and there's no good reason why people can't work. I agree equal pay is still an issue but that's not a reason to not work.

I’m not talking about them @DoreenonTill8

I absolutely agree with you that life is fragile and so unpredictable at times. My life unravelled hugely a decade ago after a head injury and post concussion syndrome, then I was injured by an off label antipsychotic prescribed for severe insomnia and anxiety after the head injury. I'm now living permanently with a neurological involuntary movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia (like Parkinson's disease and Tourette's combined), which in many ways, totally changed and almost ruined my life.

To say this time was horrendous is an understatement. I'm in a new job now after 6 years of being a SAHM to my two youngest DC, but these health issues were extremely difficult to get over. I sympathise entirely with the OP's friend, whose life will have been completely turned upside down.

I think a bit of compassion is definitely needed but I understand how hard it must be, especially given she has been so horrid to you and your friends.

Totally understand that your opinion is guided by your own experience. I have known a few women whose partners were domineering and didn’t want them to work. I’ve also seen a couple of cases on MN.

I've only ever come across this phenomena on Mumsnet.

What we don't know though is how easy the OP's friend is making it to see his children.

She has never worked, she met dh at university and they got married

I think people are being very harsh about the work situation for this poor woman. She is late 40s I think it was said?

Assuming she got married and her husband was happy for her to not work/raise the children/probably encouraged it because it suited him to have her take the load, she has a fair expectation that he would continue to support her.

OK you might argue that she should have right from the start assumed this day would come so started working and kept going but that's just not real is it.

This is why I think the criticism of her work situation is harsh:

The problem now is that she is not in the same position she would have been in had she started working as a university educated graduate. Say she had left university and qualified into a profession for example - an accountant or a lawyer or nurse or something - now approaching 50, she would be senior in her profession and her pay would be commensurate. She'd be worth £££ per hour or per year.

In any job, when you are young/starting out, you have to work really hard, get the shitty jobs, stay late at the office for low pay. As you become more senior in professions or many graduate jobs, although you may still work hard or have to stay late, the work becomes more interesting usually as it is more challenging. You get to drop the shitty little hard labour for no money jobs and do the higher paid more interesting jobs. Almost becoming like a consultant.

This woman has lost this opportunity. The work she could get now at her age is not going to be anywhere near commensurate with her age and lifestyle. She will be competing with enthusiastic young graduates as a career starter for low pay. That's hard enough when you are young and keen but are inpsired by seeing a career ladder in front of you and are driven by youthful ambition.

You may say 'well it's of her own making' but it isn't entirely is it? Because her husband has either wanted it or encouraged it or enabled it.

For anyone who has had any extended period away from work for illness or maternity leave or whatever, you know how hard it is to get back into it. For someone who has never worked who is facing taking a job likely way below their educational level and ability and age bracket, that is a tough thing to face. Who would want to do it? Add on top of that she is probably really depressed. It's very harsh to just be like 'get a job, lazy woman' because it is not the same position as working from the start.

@ArtInTheMediumOfTurnip I think the problem is that most people are not happy for their spouse to not work. Eventually they get fed up of the situation and walk away, which is what has happened here.

If this woman really is in her late 40s and her eldest is 11, then she must have spent 15-20 years doing bugger all. She should deal with the consequences of that now, not her ex.

That’s interesting because I don’t think I’ve ever known a woman who chose to be a lady of leisure and just let her husband keep her. A friend of mine did say her sister did, but I’ve never actually met the sister. I’m wondering if maybe you just known wealthier people than me, but it’s probably a lot more complicated than just that.

I briefly felt jealous of a friend’s life too but I went to huge lengths never to let her get a whiff of it and also vowed not to give in to the feelings. I value her friendship too much. I also value my own self esteem too much. You can’t help feelings but you can choose how to respond. I hope your friend manages to get on top of it all.

I don't think it's a "lady of leisure" as such. It's more someone who chooses to completely abandon their career to raise their children. Men seem to get the blame for women doing this but in my experience it's always the woman insisting on it (although it's becoming less and less common for households to be able to survive on one wage so the phenomena is dying out).

I think the problem is that most people are not happy for their spouse to not work. Eventually they get fed up of the situation and walk away, which is what has happened here.

I'm not sure that it is relevant that 'most people' are not happy -because the issue is what was the position here with this woman with this DH. It is also true that some people are happy for their spouse not to work - and if the DH here was happy at the beginning, then it's really harsh to now expect someone who has lost the benefit of 20 years experience in the work force to start at the beginning.

There are a lot of demeaning aspects to junior work in any job that is easier to tolerate as a young person driven by ambition; that would be very hard for an older person to face. Very hard. even if you aren't depressed by being abandoned for another woman.

We probably all know people who are happy for a spouse not to work -usually higher earners who like having the convenience of a stay at home partner. It isn't always men either. I know of two women who are in that situation, both of whom are always bragging about the benefit of the stay at home dad, and neither are pushing the spouse to work. I'm related to one of them so it isn't just a public front either.

We can assume that if someone was that unhappy about a spouse not working, they wouldn't collude with it - which is as bad as encouraging it. It's easy enough to set that tone right from the start of a relationship or marriage - what you expect from each other.

I suppose what I'm saying is that it is a pretty big thing to take a person of university education ability (who once had many career options open to them) but has lost the chance of 20 years career experience and seniority progression in any job, and tell them they need to take a very low level junior job with the low pay and demeaning aspects junior work usually involves. It would be hard for anyone. It's not unreasonable for the wife in that situation to feel that she's been led down the garden path of non-working spouse and then really stuffed.

FWIW I am a working person so I'm not saying this because Im in this situation - just I feel a lot of empathy here because I'd hate to have to go back to the beginning of anything at that age.

Maybe ask her. What support do you want from us?

Or even say you're being very aggressive with your friends do you want to talk?

She might be misdirection her anger and it is understandable but it's also unreasonable to treat you badly

I'm not great with confrontation but wish I had said something many years ago!! Friend was saying really awful things to me in her anger, I sat and listened endlessly but she moved on and somehow still shows no appreciation for any support I gave, it actually feels as if I don't matter to her at all. I'm sorry but it still rankles and one day it will come out!!

Who knows what things were really like at home in her previous so-called wonderful life. It's a shame that she is being so negative about future opportunities, especially as she isn't going to be badly off when everything is sorted. Many people would envy her situation. She sounds very vacuous and self-centred. I can empathise with her being upset about her husband but not lashing out at her friends who have been so kind as to rally round and treat her to things. It sounds like all she really cares about is appearances.

You are certainly a better person that I am. If I'd have heard her say that, I'm not sure I'd be able to stop myself from saying "ok, that's enough. We all understand that you've been going through a hard time, but that's no reason to be a B*%#& to Prunella. That remark was completely uncalled for." And I'm fairly certain that would be the end of whatever was left of the "friendship"

She is behaving so badly because you're all tiptoeing around her. She's allowed to be upset & angry, but she's not allowed to be hurtful to people who are being kind to her. Why would you want to remain friends with someone like this anyhow?

The problem now is that she is not in the same position she would have been in had she started working as a university educated graduate. Say she had left university and qualified into a profession for example - an accountant or a lawyer or nurse or something - now approaching 50, she would be senior in her profession and her pay would be commensurate. She'd be worth £££ per hour or per year.
So @ArtInTheMediumOfTurnip on that basis, once you've been a SAHP you should never be expected to work again?

You are really sweet but you can't fix any of this and you shouldn't try - I suspect your friend has codependency issues and will over rely on you going forward. Sometimes you need to step right back. You really don't have to run to her next crisis.

@DoreenonTill8 , @ArtInTheMediumOfTurnip was saying that had the friend worked when married but before children, she would have those skills to look for work now, even if she had been a SAHP while the children were tiny.

or that's how I interpreted it.

I think that’s really sad for her. Maybe this change will open her eyes and she will invest in her self rather than just existing as an adjunct to a man.

I think you need to maintain your boundaries. You don’t need to take abuse from someone just because they have had a challenging time.

I've known several women like this, they think that their marriage has set them up for life and they won't have to work. It comes as a rude awakening when a wife of school aged children realises that though their ex has to support the children she would have to get a job to support herself. May well be a good thing, she will have something new in her life.