17 year old - should we give him money?

[spongecanary]

It's a bit of a long one but I just can't decide whether we are being unreasonable or not.

We don't give our 17 old pocket money as he doesn't help out around the house, we have had lengthy conversations explaining all the responsibilities of a household and asked him to just help out with something every day, ranging from feeding the fish to putting the bins out, but he just can't be bothered. We tried GoHenry a couple of years ago with good opportunities to earn money but he wasn't interested. He had a job in the summer and we advised him to save up for when the job ended but of course he didn't listen.
He has now changed colleges and we have said he has to pay for the bus himself. It's a bit of a long walk but it is walking distance and not much further than his old school which he used to walk to every day. He doesn't want to walk and I don't know if we are being unreasonable expecting him to pay for the bus if he wants to get it.

We put him on our insurance to try and teach him to drive but he wasn't interested as it's too much effort. This puts me off giving him lifts as he has had the opportunity to learn to drive.

He is making minimal effort to get a job. We are reluctant to start giving him money now as I don't want him to learn that he can just get handouts if he doesn't bother doing anything, we really want to instill a good work ethic in him but it's really hard.

I think if he was to make an effort in looking for a job, make an effort at college (third time sitting GCSEs and he is doing no more work than the first two times), help out around the house (even if I do persuade him to do something it's always half arsed so I have to redo it), put the effort in to learn to drive, I might feel differently but I am really reluctant to enable his laziness by giving him money every week.

Are we being unreasonable?

We were paying to put him on the insurance so yes potentially saving him thousands. We were going to teach him up to a certain level then get him a few lessons to get through the test.

You're going to have a very fractious relationship with him if you carry on like this. He is a child in education and you should absolutely be paying for him. Do you claim child benefit for him?

Getting him to school/ college and his lunch (pack up or otherwise) are normal
parent expenses. You should absolutely pay for his college transport and food while studying! Everything else he does jobs round the home or gets a job.

When my DS started college I gave him his child benefit directly. This covered his travel by train and lunches - if he didn't budget he had to use his part time job earnings to top it up.

Is this a realistic option for you?

No contribution to the household, no participation in household funds.

YANBU.

He sounds like he's not interested in anything- is he perhaps depressed?

Sorry but nowhere did I say I had a shitty young adulthood without parental support. Circumstances meant we were almost homeless so we all had to step up. I don't begrudge that.

That sounds pretty shitty to me. Most 18yos are just worrying about their next night out, not if they can afford secure housing. If your parents were loving but struggled to provide secure housing could it be that they too had executive functioning issues or learning difficulties that your son has inherited?

My 16 year old lad done rubbish in his gcse and started college Sept to resit them, he absolutely hated it so I told him if he gets a job he can leave.
1 week later (3 weeks ago) he was working 5days aweek and absolutely loves it.
Have you give him the opportunity to leave college if he gets a job or would he still be expected togo?
Education isn't for everyone and given its his 3rd year with gcse am guessing its not for him.

How far is the walk to college?

Has he had blood tests done at the doctors, including iron/ ferritin, vitamin d, b12 etc? Some doctors of “functional medicine” would say there’s no such thing as lazy, there is only lack of energy. What would his energy level / activity level be like if he had eg a couple of coffees?

We didn’t do pocket money, and no they never helped around the house as such.
All I expected them to do was to ensure dirty washing was put in the wash basket, and kept their rooms reasonable tidy.

No that is not the case at all. It was called the recession, we lived abroad and when the recession hit, it caused my dad's business to stall, and none of us had jobs but my parents had a mortgage to pay. We had to move back to the UK to find work as this country was in nowhere near as bad of a state. As an 18 year old I was quite responsible and tbh didn't care for nights out or any of that. It doesn't make my parents bad parents or my adulthood shitty, it taught me how to work hard, budget, save, and do whatever job I need to do to survive. I'm grateful for what I have but I have worked hard for it.

He hates coffee 😂 he did used to have a lot of energy drinks though, however that made no difference to his motivation 😂

About 40-45 minutes, straight roads with pavements, no hills. Well lit and no dodgy areas so safety isn't a concern.

I believe he has to be in some form of education or training until 18 but I have suggested an apprenticeship as I don't think college is for him. But of course as a teenager he doesn't listen to his parents and I almost feel that he needs to work it out for himself because we can tell him a million times and he won't listen.

I don't disagree, I'm not suggesting we make him starve 😂 and if the college wasn't walking distance then I might feel differently, but I feel like it's his choice to get the bus rather than walk, not a necessity (other than when the weather is bad).

With no skills or qualifications he’ll get the dregs of the roles in the Army. They’ll try to get him some sort of trade, but he’ll be last in the queue for choices and the default will be Infantry soldier. He’ll be bottom of the food chain and it will be really hard going. Might be the making of him, but it could break him. I’d really discourage a kid with no qualifications and no motivation!

Who decision is it for him to sit his GCSEs for the 3rd time?

Maybe it's time to gave up and follow a different path. An Apprenticeship or job he is interested in?

Not all kids are made to sit exams.

With my children (who sounded similar!) I sat daily tasks that had to be done - past papers, questions - around an hour a day. I learned the syllabus and coached them through it. It was painful but we got the results. Basically the wifi was off until the work was done.

If the walk can be done in less than 30 minutes I would make him walk.

I have always thought that I’m particularly stingy with paying for things for my 17 year old compared to most of mumsnet , but I do think that bus fair and lunches should be paid for by the adults until they are 18/ finished that second year of college/ six form . (this doesn’t mean loads of money every day- a sandwich from home is still lunch )

it does sound like your son is lacking motivation. I don’t know how to suggest you support him, I know what helped my daughter about 18 months ago was looking at college/ university courses so she could get a better focus on what she wanted to do. We toured lots of campuses until she was excited.

she pot washes in a pub on a weekend for pocket money - this buys her the stuff she wants like clothes , days out with friends and junk food - none of which I pay for (with the exception of a few basic needs clothes- not normally designer- that’s what she spends her own money on if she wants them bad enough)

I think it’s given her good motivation to work- however she also does sod all around the house which is a bugbear- so I don’t have all the answers either ! However while she is doing three days at college, a day in placement and two afternoons pot washing- I’m not diying on that hill

I think you are being unreasonable to not pay for his bus, I do think parents should pay transport to college. but not unreasonable about pocket money. I'd be making sure that my son did help at home though, even if it means repeating yourself until he does it and I also would not allow him to sleep all day or sit playing Xbox for hours, I'd just switch it off.

Has he been screened for adhd? Sorry to persist 😊 - I was giving you the example of my son, not to brag but to say with the correct mentoring and possibly medication their lives can be turned around. I was despairing of my son and his "laziness" and now I could weep for the wasted time before he was diagnosed. He got the first job he interviewed for in the subject he graduated with. He is flourishing now.

That sounds hard OP. Very much doubt he will make the effort to join the army if he can't even feed the fish, he's going to need some kind of wake up call. I'd make him walk, he needs some consequences to his actions, he's on a pretty hopeless path and just paying for him won't help. But I suppose the fear is he will stop going. Wish you could just give some people a shake.

I think pocket money / allowance and chores are separate issues

My DC get pocket money, with no strings attached

Separately, they're expected to do chores and pull their weight in the house

Check out intrinsic / extrinsic motivation if you're interested. In short, doing chores cos they need to be done is better than doing them for external reward (pocket money)

What you are doing doesn't seem to be working, what else are you going to try. I would expect to pay bus travel and lunch and if he walks or takes packed lunch that's a bonus and a saving for him, he can make his lunch if he chooses. If he earns extra that's his to spend on his own things otherwise what's the motivation for work at this stage. It's OK at 17 and living at home to be a bit silly with money, it's a learning curve. Unless you are on your uppers you are trying to impose something that doesn't make sense to him. I think you need to start building bridges and this isn't working.

This is an interesting thought, thank you

Do you think he would go to college if he had to walk everyday?

I'd pay for transport while he is still in education personally and possibly lunch money too until he finishes college. I think lunch and transport should be separate from doing chores even though he should be helping.