17 year old - should we give him money?

[spongecanary]

It's a bit of a long one but I just can't decide whether we are being unreasonable or not.

We don't give our 17 old pocket money as he doesn't help out around the house, we have had lengthy conversations explaining all the responsibilities of a household and asked him to just help out with something every day, ranging from feeding the fish to putting the bins out, but he just can't be bothered. We tried GoHenry a couple of years ago with good opportunities to earn money but he wasn't interested. He had a job in the summer and we advised him to save up for when the job ended but of course he didn't listen.
He has now changed colleges and we have said he has to pay for the bus himself. It's a bit of a long walk but it is walking distance and not much further than his old school which he used to walk to every day. He doesn't want to walk and I don't know if we are being unreasonable expecting him to pay for the bus if he wants to get it.

We put him on our insurance to try and teach him to drive but he wasn't interested as it's too much effort. This puts me off giving him lifts as he has had the opportunity to learn to drive.

He is making minimal effort to get a job. We are reluctant to start giving him money now as I don't want him to learn that he can just get handouts if he doesn't bother doing anything, we really want to instill a good work ethic in him but it's really hard.

I think if he was to make an effort in looking for a job, make an effort at college (third time sitting GCSEs and he is doing no more work than the first two times), help out around the house (even if I do persuade him to do something it's always half arsed so I have to redo it), put the effort in to learn to drive, I might feel differently but I am really reluctant to enable his laziness by giving him money every week.

Are we being unreasonable?

Absolutely I have said I will make him lunch every day but again he doesn't want that, he wants to buy lunch. I have always been a take lunch with me person so even that is alien to me as I always try to save money where I can.

@spongecanary I mean this kindly, but you are doing your son no favours. It's time to get tough. If, indeed, he is capable, he gets his GCSEs as a bare minimum. He gets a part time job and then starts learning how to be useful: at home, in his education, in his life.
You are currently nurturing a lad who will not be able to survive in the real world

He's got free travel.
He can walk.

I think you should at least pay his bus fare while he is still in education.

I would definitely give him college lunch money. My 17yo works 2, sometimes 3 weekend jobs but I help him out money wise with lunch at college. It sounds as though college is within walking distance for your ds, I would probably help out with bus money but maybe not every day so he has some days on the bus and some days walking.

He sounds like a nice kid, upbeat and popular will get him a long way in the right job. Does he have any idea of what he'd like to do career wise? For the time being, I would just concentrate on supporting him as much as possible to get those GCSE’s that he needs.

This is what worries me, he says he wants to move out at 18 but has no idea how to manage his life, bills etc. I say to my partner we need to stop mollycoddling him and doing everything for him because he will be 18 soon and he has no idea. At 18 I had to juggle jobs, pay bills, budget my money, and there is no way he could do any of that anytime soon. I think there is never any consequences to anything, he didn't get his GCSE s but could still do the college course he wanted, so he doesn't see why he needs them.

No - I think he needs to understand that adulthood is fast approaching and actually reach for something himself.

Based on your explanation and the options available it sounds like you are not being unreasonable.

How does he socialise with no money ?
How will he learn to budget with no money ?
Can you give him some of the child benefit ?

I had a PT job from 16

What are the entry requirements to join the Armed Services ?

Is he suddenly going to magically turn into a fully functional adult when he reaches 18 ?

Does he have any money if his own, does he go out with friends, who pays for all that, his clothes, phone, Xbox, toiletries.

I agree with that, I think I would just like to see him put in a bit of effort because I know if we start giving him money he will definitely not get a job, whereas I have hope that if he wants to get the bus it might encourage him to find a little part time job, which we could then top up. I think the work ethic thing is a big one for me, I want him to earn money and learn the value of it, and not just expect handouts.

Time to quarantine the Xbox IMO. He gets time on it (and bus fares) when he starts pulling his weight academically, or around the house (or preferably both).

Tell him the ingredients for his lunch are in the fridge and let him walk. Anything else and you are enabling him to be lazy and entitled. I don't think you will force him to grow up as you have already allowed him to get to this age without doing chores, You are reaping what you have sown.

I would cover bus fair, lunch and a bit of pocket money. They’re still a child at home and should be focused on their studies. The fact they’re not is a different issue.

I would definitely pay for essentials as he is not and adult yet snd studying but will not pay for entertainment ; will consider removing his xbox if he is such a lazy boy.

i would not wash his clothes, makes his lunch or tidy up his room.

I would definitely pay for essentials as he is not and adult yet snd studying but will not pay for entertainment ; will consider removing his xbox if he is such a lazy boy.

i would not wash his clothes, makes his lunch or tidy up his room.

So he’s has sat GCSEs in maths and english twice and failed to get a 5 or above. You talk about him not putting in the effort but is it possible that he isn’t capable of getting the results?

I'd maybe buy him a bus pass because he might end up just nit bothering to walk to college. I'd also take him to an army recruitment place and get them to discuss with him what he might need to be able to join up.

So he has had a couple of jobs and we have tried to help him budget but he just spends the money as soon as he has it and it doesn't last. An example is that he only had enough money for a few weeks' bus fares so he said he was on a spending ban then spent £30 on a pizza the next day. It's very frustrating.
He can join the army with no qualifications so again that doesn't encourage him to get his GCSEs unfortunately because it won't stop him joining.

In terms of pocket money use the foster child rate as a guide so £10 a week for a 17 year old. Unlinked to chores and just for personal spends.

However, I think you've got your head in the sand with all this 'generational' stuff. No 17 year old is happily sitting their GCSEs for the 3rd time. They just aren't so there is something else going on here that needs investigating, particularly if he has always been like this as actually having that black and white thinking of home and school and them not mixing so not doing homework is common in several conditions unrelated to intelligence. 'Laziness' and 'doesnt bother trying' is often linked to struggles with executive function or actually worry of failure and 'you can't fail if you don't try'.

In terms of getting to college, if he has good shoes and all weather gear then let him crack on. Does he even want to be at College if he is still doing GCSEs? What alternatives are there? What does he want to do next? If it's the forces then get him to a careers centre and get the ball rolling, he'll need to put some effort in to be allowed to join even if not academically, he'll need to get fit and prepare for the tests.

“We don't give our 17 old pocket money as he doesn't help out around the house..”

So he has never learned to save and you have framed helping around the house as a negotiable item that he can choose not to do. I think you have created a rod for your own back. You should have been having him do chores for no pay- no one gets paid to help out around the house so why should he? And if he’s never had pocket money, there’s been zero chance for him to learn how to save or the value of money.

”He had a job in the summer and we advised him to save up for when the job ended but of course he didn't listen..”

Well, it was his first time having money so he has no idea how to save. He is like a 7yr old getting pocket money for the first time and spending it all on sweets and comics. Kids that get pocket money from a young age then get financial literacy taught to them by their parents- how to save, how to do research to get a good deal, how to support a charity. It also gives them a fund to explore creativity or start a side hustle.

“We put him on our insurance to try and teach him to drive..”
Lol, most people need actual lessons to learn to drive safely. I respect him for not driving your ten ton death machine to attempt self teach how to drive.

“we really want to instill a good work ethic in him but it's really hard...”
3rd time GCSEs indicates some unmet support need and because it’s not been assessed, and he’s been told he’s just not working hard enough and is lazy, I can see why he has given up. If it was just a matter of more effort, he would have done that by now. You need to find out what is going on.

He needs to grow up fast.Nearly 18 and lazy.do not make his packed lunch but provide bread,ham ,cheese whatever he likes,fruit ,yoghurt and a box to put it in.He does his own washing from now on.He learns to cook and clear up.He looks for a part time job.18 year olds are at university and living alone they manage to study,cook and wash their clothes and budget most are more than capable.My GS was just 18 August birthday when he went to university he was brought up to be independent and more than capable.good luck.

He is capable, his teachers have all said it and I have seen some of the mocks he has done, but it's almost like he doesn't want to actually put the effort in to pass. He refuses to do any homework or revision outside of school or college. It's very frustrating but we are getting to the stage where we are so fed up of talking to him about it and offering to help him revise.

How on earth is he going to be able to move out if he won't even get a part time job the cost of housing food etc won't even be possible

I would pay for bus and lunch but that's it
Is he not focusing enough to pass a higher level on gcse?

This is very frustrating but he does need a reality check on life everyone isn't free

You've got to get REALLY tough on this behaviour now. He needs a serious kick up the arse.

I say this as a devoted Aunt with a nephew who is exactly the same. DBro & DSIL are at their wits end with him. He's now in his early 20's, sleeps all day/games all night, eats all the expensive food/treats, makes a mess, rarely showers, barely lifts a finger, and is rude/disrespectful to his parents. He gives not one fuck about his future and is happy as a freeloading pig in shit.

That could be you in a couple of years.