Top Unis - am I missing something?

[OnTheRoll]

DD is in Year 13, predicted 3 A, already has an A from a language A Level she did last year, and 11 GCSEs all 8/9. Got a great work experience in her chosen field, lots of academic reading, etc., etc. Has been working very hard and aiming for a top uni.

The problem is, it seems that unless she gets into Oxbridge, there isn't a suitable option for her?

We are in SE so decided not to go for Durham/Edinburg as the travel is just too much, 5+ hours, and she would not be able to come home more than once a term. She would very much prefer a campus experience rather than a city uni which rules out LSE/UCL in London.

There are of course great options like Warwick, Bristol, Bath, Exeter. We visited and DD loved them and so did I.

But I cannot help thinking that if she were to go to one of those unis she didn't really need to spend that much time working, studying and sacrificing her free time. Does it make sense? Entry requirements in those unis in her subject are all quite lower than her current and predicted grades.

Would appreciate some perspective.

Don't discount unis based on travel time liij fir the best course and uni that ticks the boxes.

DD has gone to Nottingham because she absolutely loved both course and campus it in open day. There were others she could have taken with higher grades but she chose the right place for her. Now she's joined the kayaking club and spends most of her weekends either socialising ir whizzing down rivers in the peak district and Wales so she's not coming home anyway she's too busy. You dint know what she will do when she gets there - is figured dd would something nice and safe like debating!!

From what younsay your DD has a good chance of Oxbbrige but if not places like Durham and St Andrews and Cardiff should not simply be off the agenda

Dismissing a Uni because of five hour travel distance seems odd.

Dismissing other perfectly good universities on the basis that other students may have got slightly lower grades at A level is even odder!

I would also add that 2 of the best new graduates I have met have actually come via an access summer course to university. They encountered terrible snobbery at university because people felt they shouldn’t be there (they just had the misfortune of attending a poor school). And yet in industry they were streets ahead with pragmatism, common sense and excellent planning. I do wonder if their life experience gave them an edge.
Its important never to look down your nose at others around you at uni based on grades, because you have no idea the path they walked to get there.

I work in investment banking, we recruit blind now (as do most banks), but before we moved to that, I saw hundreds of CV's from graduates applying to our grad schemes. Provided they had a 2:1,in a relevant degree, from a decent Uni, I was far more interested in extra-curricula, internships, part time jobs and how they performed at our own assessment centres and interviews. I have never, in 25yrs, made a hiring decision on the basis of what I perceive to be a 'better' Uni.

Don't rule out the unis that offer a year in industry/year abroad - Oxbridge aren't set up for this. Can be such a valuable experience for employment prospects afterwards.

If she wants a closer to home top campus university then she should accept the offer from Warwick. To be truly successful in life I suggest she drops the superior attitude that she’s developed.

If she wants to study politics, both Warwick and Bath are in the top 10 - with Warwick currently ranking above Durham.

Warwick also has the highest student satisfaction rating, which IMO is much more important than perceived prestige. Research quality is high, which means she will be taught by some of the best researchers in the field.

Her prospects after university aren’t going to be hugely impacted by the university she chooses, but the work she puts in. And it sounds like she already has the work ethic that will be necessary to do well at any university.

What is her preferred choice at the moment? I would go with that.

Was pushing herself her own choice or yours? I hope you're letting your daughter choose her University and not the other way around.

I think uni is about so much more than the academic side. Living away from home for the first time, meeting loads of new people, being far more independent in how you manage your time and space. Plus a degree is so different to A Levels.

I think it’s good she has a great work ethic, it should mean she will do well wherever she ends up.

A gap year could be great if she’s not ready to make a decision yet but there’s still an entire academic year to go pretty much at sixth form and lots can happen in that time.

She could see what happens with Oxbridge but continue to be open to other unis. Working hard so far is amazing and she’s done great to get that A and be predicted A stars for the rest - but they are not in the bag yet and so i’d be considering why she’s already backing away from the idea of Cambridge for example.

Is she reaching burnout and having too much stress with the pressure of entering yr 13? If she’s already stressing about not being able to have fun and enjoy herself at uni - how sure are you that she doesn’t mean now as well? It’s a long slog to exams next year and a ton of pressure. So for me i’d be a bit more concerned about her A levels vs uni right now.

You are not a snob and shouldn't be receiving so much hate. The truth is your child worked so hard to get these results and it's so natural to want whats best for her!

I think she has amazing chances to get in Oxbridge, but if she doesn't, it's excellent she liked other unis. I would say I know a lot of people from Bath, Exeter and Warwick and they are also super smart and super successful. She needs to know not going to Oxbridge is not the end of the world and she will feel challenged in other unis as well and will meet super smart people there she will vibe with.

Good luck to you both :)

Am I missing something? Yes. You are missing the big picture which is that she is looking at 4 A stars which - Cambridge aside - pretty much guarantees she will get into any university of her choice. She just needs to decide where she wants to go and if she's really not sure I wouldn't rule out encouraging her to take a year out to allow her to mature a bit, properly explore the possibilities and also claw back a bit of the free time she has been denied so far. Personally I would look at the course first because that's what she will actually be paying for and that's what she needs to be passionate about and courses in the same subject can vary so much from university to university. Then she needs to find somewhere she feels comfortable - and if that means not wanting to study at the other end of the country then that's really not the end of the world. Are you French by any chance because you sound like some of the French parents I am surrounded by here in Paris who obsess over the prestige of the institution even if their kids are utterly miserable there.

I agree. DS1 is in is 2nd year at Durham and jokes that it is full of Oxbridge rejects, so he feels he fits in well. He didn't go to private school and although some of his peers did, there are many from state schools too.

He thinks he's having a better time than he would have had at Cambridge as he has time for a social life too.

For Maths, which DS1 is doing, Cambridge interview 5 people for 1 place, all of whom have top predicted grades. So being predicted 4 A stars and a good reference/personal statement is only the start.

There's then the interview to get through. And if you get past that for Maths, the STEP exams filter out about 50% with offers following interview.

DS2 is giving it a go as he really wants to go to Cambridge, more than DS1 did it seems. But he accepts the reality that he might not make it, even though he works so hard and according to his (state) 6th form teachers is academically brilliant.

I think you need to manage your expectations OP.

I have 2 nephews, one got 3 Astars and the other got 4 A stars, both with top GCSE grades both applied to Oxbridge were interviewed but were unsuccessful.

Both are very happy at their Universities of choice.

Another nephew got in with only 3 A's (the horror)

You are making out that Oxbridge is the only suitable option for highly intelligent people, it is not.

You are setting yourself and your daughter up for massive disappointment if she doesn't get through the process.

My own DS also unsuccessfully applied to Oxford. He is now at UCL and very happy he is there.

I’m not really sure what you’re asking TBH.

If you live in the SE she has her pick of great unis, it’s not like you’re in Shetland or somewhere? I assume she’s trying for Oxbridge but yes, it’s on her to work out a plan B if that doesn’t work out. If what she wants doesn’t exist (and it sounds like what you want is Durham but in Dorking) then she needs to think about her priorities. She, not you. And then work out a plan.

If she chooses one of the good Russell group unis the likelihood is that she’ll find loads of extremely bright people with excellent exam results there- I got 4 As 20 years ago and went to Bristol. It had an excellent reputation for the course I wanted and I loved it. Just look at the entry requirements for her course- I bet they will all be AAB or equivalent. There are literally thousands of people in her position.

If she wants politics though she’d be mad to dismiss the London unis.

I agree but I'm talking internships after 1 year of uni as the first opportunity to get that relevant experience. Then that relevant experience will be preferred over no experience

I replied on the wrong account woops

You're missing the fact that Oxford and Cambridge don't have enough spaces for all the kids with very high grades. So there are plenty of very high grade kids at the other universities.

And yes I know several kids of friends who all got top grades- one went to Exeter, one is at UCL and the other went to Bath.

Also, all that reading and the top-notch work experience are necessary for her Cambridge application… the fact that it may be surplus to the requirements of places like Bath and Warwick is a) debatable and b) not important even if true.

I say it’s debatable that her reading and her work experience were of no help with her Warwick/Bath applications because surely, if she was well advised, she leveraged reading and work experience quite heavily in her personal statement…

I say it’s not important even if true because you either apply to Oxbridge and throw everything at it (reading, work experience), or you don’t bother and aim just for all your other choices.

Any of the top ten universities (or even top 15) are excellent universities. There's very little between them after you carve off Oxford and Cambridge.

DS is doing International Relations and History (also did politics in year 1) at Lancaster. He has 3 x A Stars at A Level in History, English Literature and Economics plus Core Maths and EPQ. He is having the time of his life, full campus university, great social life, no accommodation problems, cheap to live and is really engaged with the subject and the module choice (currently loving Chinese international relations).

I’m not sure the commute is as bad as you’re thinking. I went to UCL and many of the halls are within walking distance of lecture halls. I happened to be further away (in Camden) but it was only a short bus ride and it was very collegiate with everyone going in together.

Even if she attended Cambridge she could end up at a college which required a commute (Girton for example) and all require some commute of a similar length to the UCL one. I can’t speak to LSE though.

My son is at UCL and his halls are in Bloomsbury, 10 minute walk. I walked further than that from my halls in my campus university.

Although in practice finding a decent placement is incredibly difficult.

Yes.

I was a natural at A levels etc. I didn't like Oxbridge and they didn't like me, and I got A* equivalent grades and went to Sheffield.

I didn't have any drive because I always had it easy, and my parents had kept too tight a rein on me, so I focused on having fun!

I don't regret it, but there's definitely merit in having worked hard for your grades.

Durham Uni is only 2.5 hours from London on the train! Add an extra 20 mins to get to Newcastle Uni and another hour for Edinburgh. All fantastic universities in brilliant university cities.