Top Unis - am I missing something?

[OnTheRoll]

DD is in Year 13, predicted 3 A, already has an A from a language A Level she did last year, and 11 GCSEs all 8/9. Got a great work experience in her chosen field, lots of academic reading, etc., etc. Has been working very hard and aiming for a top uni.

The problem is, it seems that unless she gets into Oxbridge, there isn't a suitable option for her?

We are in SE so decided not to go for Durham/Edinburg as the travel is just too much, 5+ hours, and she would not be able to come home more than once a term. She would very much prefer a campus experience rather than a city uni which rules out LSE/UCL in London.

There are of course great options like Warwick, Bristol, Bath, Exeter. We visited and DD loved them and so did I.

But I cannot help thinking that if she were to go to one of those unis she didn't really need to spend that much time working, studying and sacrificing her free time. Does it make sense? Entry requirements in those unis in her subject are all quite lower than her current and predicted grades.

Would appreciate some perspective.

Thank you for your post.

DD has actually come up with Bath just over the weekend! Quite a reassuring coincidence that you are recommending it.

Congratulations to your DD and her successful experience! At the risk of facing more accusations of being a snob, I couldn't help but notice that your DD had a really good balance of choices: some ambitious choices, some solid choices and an insurance choice. Which is what I understood is the right approach. With my DD, it looks like Cambridge is the only ambitious choice and the rest are solid. I would really have thought that she ought to have another ambitious choice (LSE, UCL, St Andrews, Edinburg) - but they are either city uni/far away, so she doesn't want to put them. So she will basically have four quite similar unis apart from Cambridge. Which doesn't seem like much of a point as she can only go to one in the end and she likes them pretty equally. So why not put in one of the unis from the above (LSE, UCL, St Andrews, Edinburg) and see how she feels about distance/London when it's time to firm up - a long time away yet. But she is adamant that there is no point. Argghhh...

Tbh I agree Op. I would have hated uni in London, definitely wanted a campus /smaller feel.

I would probably have ended up at Bristol, if I hadn’t bagged a place at my first choice uni. Location and feeling about a place are really important. I wouldn’t have gone too far from my mum, I just liked knowing I could get home if I needed to. I was a young 18 year old in many ways, and I did experience homesickness at uni

I went to uni without a car and I found coaches really helpful - a cheaper way to get home for a weekend if I needed to, I would study on the coach and dad would pick me up from from coach station.

Honestly while your dd thinks now that she will need to escape home for weekends, once she is immersed in uni life she probably won’t need to rely on that as often as she thinks (unless there’s more going on behind the scenes we don’t know about).

I would look at coach and train routes and prices to various further-afield universities and see if any of them appear feasible.

She really does need to consider the London universities. Queen Mary University of London - Politics and International Relations degree? The campus is great and the accommodation very good. They're a Russell Group uni too.

She sounds as though she's got a bit of growing up to do and improving her confidence. Excessive studying is one thing, but not to the exclusion of socialising and being more independent. Maybe she should consider a gap year to get her off her self-imposed treadmill of studying and academic achievements.

I'm a bit confused by your post. You've listed and rejected a lot of top rated universities based on distance or they aren't good enough. The aren't good enoughs are very good and I would be surprised if the entry requirements were much less than what your daughter is going to get, all be it course dependent. It seems you want another Oxbridge but one that will take your daughter on her grades, which are fantastic, but possibly not Oxbridge grades.

edited as I thought you had ruled out Oxbridge due to grades but reread and realised you hadn't. Apologies

Is Edinburgh really that sought after? The only kids I know that went there were really unhappy.

I really appreciate all the helpful posts, they provide so much useful insight. Apologies for not quoting each one individually, glad there is now a Thanks button!

But 5+ hours from the OPs home.
Lots of kids don't want to be quite so far away, many do want the option of being able to get home for the odd weekend. It's entirely normal and understandable. Many of DDs school friends didn't look south of Birmingham....plenty of good unis from there up, plenty from there down.

It sounds to me like she's tired of studying so hard and wants a break. She wants to enjoy university, let her hair down and start living a bit after all the years at school working so hard.

In which case, she is right that Cambridge or Oxford would not suit her. Durham probably wouldn't either.

My personal feeling is that you believe she has to go to these outstanding universities so she can succeed in life and this is the message you are giving her, which is putting the pressure on

Maybe she'd just be happy at a mid-level uni, where she has no pressure and can have fun!

I loved my middle of the road campus uni and am very pleased I turned down Durham. I got a chance to breathe, enjoy life and figure out who I was and what I wanted, away from home.

A couple of years after university I completed an MSc at a well known red brick, and went on to take a research post at Cambridge. I also subsequently obtained a doctorate. My undergrad, non pretentious, relaxed, caring, fun university was by far my favourite place and ironically, the teaching there far exceeded the offer at Cambridge (bar the one to one tutor groups they have) or where I completed my MSc.

Oxbridge is incredible for some, but my experience working at Cambridge was that many (there are obvious exceptions) people there are just normal people with privilege and not necessarily that bright. There are however, some very bright people at every university, even the old poly's you know!

In my opinion, good GCSE and A level grades don't make you bright. A good grade often just reflects hard work and sometimes privilege through tutors, private school etc...

Some very bright people get poor grades.

On my doctorate programme the student who had 4 A*s at A level really struggled. I got poor grades at A level but I have a high IQ (mensa level) and found it all very easy! Grades don't always dictate who is naturally smarter!

She's young, encourage her to go somewhere she can relax, have fun and figure her future out by herself! If she is genuinely smart, life will all work itself out!

You also might want to support her to work on her confidence a bit before she heads to uni.

Another (expensive!) option OP, would be to look at the Dual BA programmes between Sci Po and Colombia. The course we looked at a few years ago was much broader than most UK degrees, but there is a Politics strand. You spend the first two years in France. I think the options were Menton (!) for a Middle Eastern politics / history focus, Poitiers for another regional focus... I can't remember exactly, but there are 4 campuses around France depending on which global region you focus on. They also have to do a language course, depending on focus. But the course is much broader than degrees here and they earn credits towards their yearly grades by doing things like art classes - there is scheduled time for this. It's much more balanced. Then, in the final two years, they choose their 'major' and go to Colombia uni for that. Have a look - it's expensive but I don't think many people pay full fees.

Well let it be a lesson...there isn't a gold medal or a red carpet leading to a perfect spec uni made bespoke for your daughter. The world doesn't revolve around A*s and Oxbridge and, as a teacher, I've seen plenty students suffer adversely with the pressure from parental expectations of those who believe it does. Including two kids who had panic attacks in the middle of exams.

I'd far rather my kids were able to balance a healthy life with time for socialising/sports/clubs/interests/travel (without feeling guilty or less than) than bending over backwards to compete with kids and parents who have such a skewed and tunnel visioned perspective on success.

Sounds like you've been so focused on uni entry you've not seen the wood for the bloody trees.

Probably parents not wanting her to fly the nest and being too far away if they perceive there is an emergency[?]

The only reason I can think of.

I am a political prof who has taught and attended a few of the unis mentioned. A few things to consider particularly as she picked Politics-

a) why politics and what would she like to do with it? Politics used to be a nice generic degree but with AI etc.....the relevance of it as a degree is perhaps less obvious.

b) Where does she want to end up afterwards? Does she need to look at the syllabus? What skills do they offer...do they teach Quant and methods?

c) Biggest difference between unis (when it comes to politics) is the atmosphere and students - not staff or equipment. Where academics end up in politics is mainly luck of the draw.

d) Student atmosphere matters - Oxbridge nerdy people who also go out and drink quite a bit but also study very hard. It's an artificially created pressure cooker due to short term but man you learn to work hard, stay ambitious and produce. Will start chatting careers the minute they nove into their college. London unis - bright but mainly international students all about city jobs. She will naturally end up very focused on her career as that's what they all do from the word go. Not sure about Durham - little experience of it. Other unis in UK - student body a lot less driven and motivated and not as career focused. That might be a good thing...it depends on your perception.

In practice, you pay same cash for Oxbridge as Loughborough so in my opinion you might as well go for the best. As people say - lost of young people get a degree. Having a degree doesn't guarantee a job so she needs to be driven, ambitious and on the ball about what she is there for and what she will do with it - especially as AI is currently eating up a lot of the jobs around us.

That might change when she gets there and has a taste of university life and makes new friends. And is also a little older.

Doesn't she want to do as well as she can for her own sense of achievement, though?

Hi, OP -

I found your post at 8.36 this morning interesting and possibly concerning. Either DD is downplaying how much she wants Oxbridge, or she is genuinely confused.

I am a former admissions tutor in an RG STEM School with a very high offer. We There are loads of students with straight A stars. A substantial minority have a bit of difficulty adjusting to the fact that university is much more difficult than school and many of these were the heads-down-studious types in their school days. DD is right to think about whether she will thrive in the rigours of the Oxbridge tutorial system - she may, she may not. Like a PP I have worked with Oxbridge transfers who simply did not.

Of course there are man universities from which she can launch a successful career. But she is severely limiting herself. St Andrews offers one of the most satisfying UG experiences in the UK, almost always surpassing Durham and Edinburgh (and sometimes Cambridge), is hugely competitive and respected, yet is obviously off the radar. As is all of London, apparently.

Gently, someone who thinks it is a big pressure to know where she will want to spend 3 years, who is making it a priority to be able to get home quickly during term time, doesn’t sound very sure of herself yet. And that’s fine! If DD takes a year to grow up and consider what she really wants her CV won’t diminish in the meantime. And she will feel much stronger and more confident. That’s a better position for beginning university.

BTW I expect Politics (whatever the degree programme is called) at Bath will have a number of outstanding students. It is a wonderful university offering high quality of life.

My dd is at Bristol and now doing a Masters having finished her undergraduate degree there, we live 4 1/2 hours from Bristol and she only comes home for Christmas, Easter and during the summer but she loves it there, she too worked so hard and there was a possibility of going to Cambridge but they didn’t do her course and she didn’t feel it would of been the right fit for her and is very happy where she is.

Haven’t read the full thread but I grew up just north of Durham, went to a south coast uni and came home whenever I wanted to. It’s not a big deal, especially not on the train. So the same journey the opposite way around. Might be missing the point though!

Royal Holloway. London, campus, very good.

Bristol is a lovely City- a bit run down in places now {post Covid} but seems massively popular. A lot of students stay on and live there afterwards.

She is setting limiting criteria (can't be too far away, not city based, must be a 3 year course) and then complaining that her choices are limited!

If you live in the SE Durham is a long journey and I can understand it seems daunting to an 18 yo. One of my children went there (we are also SE) and it seemed like the end of world.

With planning and railcards the train journey soon became familiar to us and we managed to meet up every few weeks. They even did the round trip in a day for an important family event in finals week. The long train journey is also a great opportunity to catch up on reading.

I don't know why people are so quick to rule of London unis because "they want a campus uni". These universities do have campuses (especially UCL which is decently sized). And like there's so much to see and do in London.

Your daughter would be one of very many students with top A level grades at any number of British universities. I’d tell her that and then let her make her own decisions.

I was about to say this. She's eighteen. The world's her oyster. It isn't a choice between Oxbridge and nowhere else. There are lots of very good universities and many of them are better for specific courses than Oxbridge. For example with my own subject, music, if you want to be a performer, the conservatoires are far better. If you want to be a musicologist or, possibly, a composer, Oxbridge AND other universities would be better. Depending on the subject, what is wrong with Bristol, Sussex, Exeter, Birmingham, Nottingham, Leeds, East Anglia or Essex, to name a few? I think your daughter should be looking at as many different universities that run the course(s) that she is interested in and let her make up her own mind.

Can you not ask your daughter where she wants to go?

She's sounds like she doesn't know what she wants except that she doesn't want the pressure she feels under.

Maybe a gap year would be for the best.

It's hard applying in the midsts of working hard for A Levels and going through the Oxbridge admissions process is no walk in the park.

I'd be very worried she's on the road to burn out. She's struggling and you need to listen and stop with the So this goes quite deep I suppose. But then I am of an opinion that when you are tired, you take a break and rest, you don't quit. I'm not saying she needs to quit but the thing is it seems that this topic has become stressful to her for whatever reason. My DS's best friend at college was predicted 3 A*s had a place at Oxford and then burnt out and missed the grades. This can happen.

I think the problem with London universities @GoodMorningPineapple is that they offer a much different university experience to most other places. Anecdotally the YP I know who chose London wish they’d had the university experience of friends who went elsewhere.