Top Unis - am I missing something?

[OnTheRoll]

DD is in Year 13, predicted 3 A, already has an A from a language A Level she did last year, and 11 GCSEs all 8/9. Got a great work experience in her chosen field, lots of academic reading, etc., etc. Has been working very hard and aiming for a top uni.

The problem is, it seems that unless she gets into Oxbridge, there isn't a suitable option for her?

We are in SE so decided not to go for Durham/Edinburg as the travel is just too much, 5+ hours, and she would not be able to come home more than once a term. She would very much prefer a campus experience rather than a city uni which rules out LSE/UCL in London.

There are of course great options like Warwick, Bristol, Bath, Exeter. We visited and DD loved them and so did I.

But I cannot help thinking that if she were to go to one of those unis she didn't really need to spend that much time working, studying and sacrificing her free time. Does it make sense? Entry requirements in those unis in her subject are all quite lower than her current and predicted grades.

Would appreciate some perspective.

Red Brick unis have very high entry standards. Oxbridge is entirely its own beast but you need to work just as hard to get into somewhere like Bristol. I got all As at A level and still didn’t get into Edinburgh, York or Bristol - was accepted to Cardiff so still landed a Russell Group and certainly needed to put in all the work I did.

Durham is amazing!! My daughter read History there and I would fly return to Newcastle sometimes for £50 return. Don’t restrict yourself, explore!!

They're not supposed to have termtime jobs except for a few things like the college bars. And they're likely to need to consolidate/revise/do other work in the Xmas and Easter vacs.
But there's no reason they can't do summer internships - in fact a certain number of weeks relevant work was a course requirement for DD.

Agree with OP, doesn’t seem to be a clear second tier of universities these days, outside of Oxbridge, Imperial, LSE. So if you have a bright child who doesn't want to (or isn't quite good enough to get into) these unis, it’s not clear what the next best options are!

Maybe it was something in the water at Bristol Uni in the '80's, but I seem to have encountered a lot of people who went on to become MPs.

They were economists and lawyers. The guy who studied politics in my circle went into merchant banking and I think he faffs about with a vineyard these days.

She didn't NEED to push herself, she chose to. She is choosing to want to attend a "top" university - it doesn't mean it will be the best for her. There will be plenty of students attending the "top" universities that will very rarely visit home but are prepared to make that sacrifice to be able to attend them. It's a choice, nobody is forcing that upon her.

My daughter had straight 9s and A star A levels and went to York for PPE. She said what are old white men going to teach me at Oxford …..
Year 1 was easy and I thought she made a mistake. Year 2 was manageable and she got a First. Year 3 is finally challenging and so I wouldn’t knock it. She’s getting through the rounds on some interesting jobs which Oxbridge students would be equally pleased to get.

Daughter needs to compromise on the campus then- I get the wanting to be able to pop back home- better to realise that now than later.

if you look at the % spread on the league tables there is really nothing in it.

the question I would be asking rather than moaning about uni choices is why is she under reaching on her choice of degree. If she and you think she is so exceptional then why isn’t she chasing medicine, computer science or maths/sciences?

are her As all humanities or drama?

Some super high achievers actively avoid Oxbridge for political, social, mind broadening etc reasons. My Dd for one. She won’t be on her own in a ‘second tier’ Russel choice. There’ll be plenty as well qualified. Getting a first class degree there and going on to post grad ( in maybe Oxford or Cambridge ) will set her up as well as anything.

You know, it's really interesting how some posters say that I am an overbearing parent who is pushing her choices and opinions on the poor DD and some ask why aren't I encouraging her to study STEM instead. So which one is it? Do we push our choices or do we let them choose what they want to do with their lives? 😆

DD is not studying medicine, computer science or maths/sciences because she is interested in history, always has been. She got a 8 in Further Maths at GCSEs and admitted that she was good at it but she did not want to study it further. She is still planning to utilise it by going for a BSc rather than BA in her subject (i.e. with research methods/data science/statistics).

I am reading every post very carefully, such breadth and depth of useful information and insights. Very much appreciated, thank you all for taking the time to reply, it is helping massively.

I think Oxbridge is 4 A*'s these days.

My niece got 3 a stars and got in. She's one of the cleverest people I've ever met so there's that.

Definitely stick to Russell Group unis at a minimum. People on here may say I’m being a snob, but it makes a difference regarding future employment opportunities, I’ve seen it.

Agree with OP, doesn’t seem to be a clear second tier of universities these days, outside of Oxbridge, Imperial, LSE.

Really?

I disagree. I think it depends on the subject and what career the young person has in mind.

I see the snobby attitude is alive and well here.

I feel like you and your daughter might be falling into the common trap of thinking that the only use for school grades is to get you into uni and then they’re suddenly no use.

While that is true to a certain extent, and particularly for people who’s exam results don’t reflect their ability for some reason, it’s not the full story.

Yes, in the near term they’re a major feature of what your next options are. But that’s not the end of the story.

Someone who has both the intellectual capability and the motivation to study to the point where they’re in the straight A star position will carry the benefits of that with them forward in life. The longer term benefits are two fold:

1. The benefit the grades themselves bring. Some examples - the GCSE results and any results since will have been a major feature in her getting the lower than standard offer she’s already got. Her work has brought her the benefit of an option of a ‘back up plan’ at a higher calibre university than most people will get to carry as their insurance offer. That’s the first example. They’ll be plenty more. The language A level will be a distinguishing feature through a lot of her career. Especially if she keeps enough of it up as a hobby to keep that level ticking over. Having done a lot of graduate recruitment, we do look back to A levels to give wider context on a candidate.
2. The underpinning study skills and knowledge she’s developed in this process will stay with her, and set her in good stead for future study and qualifications. Yes, it’s hard work doing this study at school - but you’re in a much better environment to be learning study skills than on your own at uni. You also retain the knowledge you’ve gained. That gives you a more solid foundation for your further studies. That means that wherever she goes, she’s in a better position to get better results than if she’d scraped in.

If she’s not sure, has got good predictions, and a solid insurance offer already then it may be worth suggesting she considers keeping her options open and putting a range on the application. The oxbridge and insurnace are already there. Fill the rest with a mix of the short travel range campus she favours, and an alternative to the oxbridge ‘top’ course. Keeps that piece open while she further considers whether that travel distance and style is something she’d be interested in.

Travel is doable, and a better option that compromising on course content. Oxbridge and other ‘intense’ uni students still have fun. Durham, Oxbridge and St. Andrews in particular have the benefit of working on a small group and community basis - which fosters a culture of work hard, play hard. Whereas larger broad campus set ups have the potential for being disconnected from the party life of the less studious students if you take your studies seriously as there’s a wider range.

Great dilemma to be faced with. Open days are good - particularly for talking to other students about the day to day life piece, not just the course and departments.

(On London, well worth asking about international student proportion. That can influence the feel of a course and student experience when it’s very high).

Your views are outdated and incorrect.

RG universities are research intensive institutions that have got together to market their "superiority"

St Andrews, Loughborough, Bath and Lancaster are all top 10 universities, none of which are RG.

Most employers recruit university blind these days and really don't care where their applicants went to university.

And yes, you are a snob.

I say this as the parent of a DC who went to an RG university for undergraduate and will be going to another for post grad, none of which are top 10 universities.

Advising Loughborough to a girl predicted to get 4 A stars? Don’t make me laugh. Shame on you.

If you think the University of London consists of two of its colleges then you are mistaken. And it's an intercollegiate uni so the colleges all take the same exams (or they used to). Choose one of the more campus based colleges if you want a more rural setting. Royal Holloway is in Egham!

Oxbridge is not the only option here. Personally for PPE, I'd actually want to go to LSE over Oxbridge. I have a degree from University of London and I didn't get an offer from Bristol so it's a perfectly acceptable Uni. Don't judge it by entry requirements as it doesn't mean you'll get an offer. My college asked for 20 points (two As or four Es in those days I think) because they wanted me! Others didn't receive such kind offers such as 20 points from two A-levels.

Loughborough is only well rated because they have a good campus and students party HARD there. It had a reputation when I went to uni over a decade ago and that doesn’t seem to have changed. Who on earth is recommending Lancaster/Loughborough to be on par with Oxbridge?

What are you on about?
All I said that Loughborough is a top 10 university.
No-one is claiming that it is on a par with Oxbridge.

The CUG doesn't rank universities based on the campus or partying.

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings

Shame on you.

I had an impression that Loughborough is a uni of choice for very sporty kids, that's what it is famous for

High entry requirements don't always reflect the academic rigour or prestige of a course; sometimes they have been inflated to reflect popularity and manage applicant numbers. I previously worked in student recruitment at an RG so have seen this first-hand. So don't worry if the entry reqs for her chosen course aren't 3 x As; it doesn't necessarily mean the course isn't as good. As other posters have said, top grades also don't necessarily guarantee an Oxbridge offer anyway and plenty of brilliant candidates won't receive an offer. Remember too, that not every A student wants to go to Oxford or Cambridge; some don't even apply.

There are plenty of good unis out there beyond those two, and Edinburgh, Durham etc. Your DD needs to go where she thinks she will be happy, can thrive and grow and max out on every opportunity that she comes across, beyond just the study.

Yes, I got this impression too... ahi h is ridiculous of course. I think you might get a shock ...

Weird post . Moaning because your DC studies to hard and got food work experience. Weird

If DD thinks Oxbridge is her only option, she hasn't done much research. And basing courses on entry requirements alone is not a great way to choose where you'll live the first years of your independent adult life.

DD is up north at uni. 4 hr drive or 3 - 3.5 train. She's hopped on a train to meet me for lunch/ go to an exhibition/concert and goes home next day. She's even met me to go to a BBC Prom (she also has a job at uni) and gone back up north the same night. And in her first year, I visited at least once a month.

It's totally doable. Lots of students do it.

Your DD should visit all her potential choices and base her decision the the course , how she likes the uni itself and the results / outcomes etc.

Hope she gets a place where she wants to go