Top Unis - am I missing something?

[OnTheRoll]

DD is in Year 13, predicted 3 A, already has an A from a language A Level she did last year, and 11 GCSEs all 8/9. Got a great work experience in her chosen field, lots of academic reading, etc., etc. Has been working very hard and aiming for a top uni.

The problem is, it seems that unless she gets into Oxbridge, there isn't a suitable option for her?

We are in SE so decided not to go for Durham/Edinburg as the travel is just too much, 5+ hours, and she would not be able to come home more than once a term. She would very much prefer a campus experience rather than a city uni which rules out LSE/UCL in London.

There are of course great options like Warwick, Bristol, Bath, Exeter. We visited and DD loved them and so did I.

But I cannot help thinking that if she were to go to one of those unis she didn't really need to spend that much time working, studying and sacrificing her free time. Does it make sense? Entry requirements in those unis in her subject are all quite lower than her current and predicted grades.

Would appreciate some perspective.

Plenty of courses require A* and As at a level not just Oxford and Cambridge.

I think this must be course specific. I was really surprised how little difference there was for DD's subject (English).

Oxford and Cambridge asked for Astar A A (I accept that many of their students probably achieve more highly) but so did a couple of others and there was then a lot that wanted AAA and another lot that wanted AAB. DD was trying to put universities with a range of offers on her UCAS form and found it really difficult.

The disparity in grade boundaries between Oxbridge and everywhere else is really crazy, for the same courses.

It depends. For some subjects, Oxford makes a standard AAA offer, meaning that a student can struggle to find a decent, lower, insurance offer that they'd like to take.

My DS applied for Durham, York, edinburgh Cambridge. Lock down GCSE student got 7/8/9 but knows he would have done better if he sat them. A levels all A*s.
he was offered a place at Durham, York and Cambridge. Turned down by Edinburgh……. Like most of his friends…. It seems very select as to who they choose.

I’m aware, but the “drop” down to the next offer uni down the preference list is significant for the course my DC has applied for.

One of the most successful people I know (from the SE) did Politics at Sheffield University. He has had a varied and fascinating career and regularly appears on TV

So, I come from what used to be called quaintly a 'Cambridge family' in that my granny, dad, brother and me all went there (my dad was the first to do so in his family). I had a pretty good time and the whole May Ball/punting thing is fun. But my kids didn't - both went to great northern unis - one for architecture, one to another uni where they reduced the offer for him as he was predicted and got good A level results. Until they went, I'll put my hand up and say I was pretty snobbish about Oxbridge because I didn't know any different. I loved the cities and unis my kids studied at. I had to confront my inner snob and I'm really glad I did that. The uni my older one went to is a top uni for architecture, so it really depends why you want your daughter to go to Oxbridge. Try and challenge yourself a bit on this, because there are so many great universities out there, as I learned from the experience of my two. Some of their friends did go to Cambridge, by the way, with mixed experiences. It can be great, it can be very stressful with the short terms. I teach at a new university part time and the pastoral care there is so much better than at some of the very elite Russell Group universities.

Cambridge is sometimes a bit higher (especially if the applicant is doing 4 A levels and the offer is based on 4) but Oxford is not uncommonly lower offer grade than elsewhere

Is it perhaps because she is not choosing a subject that is overly academic/as competitive hence the top unis have lower requirements?

I think it's your DDs course which is unusual in that regard @skyscrapersinging

Would you consider QUB Belfast? A small, walkable city, Russell Group university and short flights to England

@OnTheRoll Having top grades doesn’t guarantee entry to oxbridge, or some other uni’s anyway. I didn’t apply to oxbridge but did apply to 6 top rated unis. I had high predictions. Was still interviewed for 3 of the uni’s. There’s plenty of top universities other than oxbridge?
Also, why can’t she travel? I picked one nowhere near where I lived. It was still only a train ride/short flight away!

This with bells on. Especially where they really pushed themselves to get the A stars rather than being naturally intelligent and talented. Some people get A stars with minimal effort because they're just that bright. Some manage it because of a mix of subject choices (some tougher than others) and working themselves into the ground. Top A level results do not necessarily mean top degree result. They're indicative of aptitude to a degree yes; but someone in my year at uni got strong A levels but scraped a 2ii. Another I know got a solid 1st but AAB A levels.

What does she want to do as a career?

Politics isn't really a career & graduates go onto a diverse range of post graduate courses & graduate jobs.

If she's determined to become an MP (very tiny percent will succeed) then purely academic qualifications aren't much use.

There are many, many children with the same or even better grades than your daughter, OP. Many with all 9s at GCSE and 4 A*s. And most don't get into Cambridge or Oxford or LSE because there aren't enough places. Hence, competition at many other top universities.

Get a grip. There are many other great University programmes available. And they also require high grades and hard work to get in. Your daughter has not wasted her time.

Sheffield is a really good university but not a campus (although not sure it matters as great student community) and not near the se

Has she thought of taking a gap year? Her parameters for decision making sound a bit unformed - doing something for a year would boost her confidence so she might feel happier about being a bit further away, and then she could apply with known grades.

What is her school like, would they be able to offer advice on worthwhile gap year schemes? I'm sure that at her age delaying things by a years feels like her life is slipping away and she will be much older than everyone else, but the signs are that she might benefit.

Our son is in his 3rd year at Warwick, studying Psychology. He's loved his time there. He can hop on a train to London and meet us there in the same time as it takes us on a train from SE Kent. A weekend visit home is not too lengthy or expensive.
Wherever she goes, her excellent A Level grades will still be on her CV.

Especially for politics it's great. The university is geared for political discourse and the level of guest speakers is unparalleled.

Apart from costs, people are so quick to dismiss London because "it's not social". It's social if you make it social. And also YPs need to think about the value and they'll get from each institution. Networks, connection and academic value all matter. A campus is just a group of buildings near each other.

Going to uni is about so much more than academic study! Or even your resulting degree.
And from the point of view of your DD, she's worked really hard to get good grades. She will have learned a lot from that. She wants a campus uni, not too far from home. I think that gives her loads of options.

Our DS has not long finished a Masters at Oxford, he applied under the Oxford opportunity scheme ( not sure if this is relevant?)
He didn’t have a job whilst he was studying, didn’t have the time, even in the Summer breaks, he was constantly doing papers.
He couldn’t come home during term time, generally 8 weeks per term, it’s very frowned upon to go home unless it’s the holidays. We had to empty his room each holiday-they rent out the rooms, I think there’s storage for a fee, but overseas students take priority ( the first year was different-due to Covid, that’s another story)
Although he studied hard, came out with a fabulous result, he says he couldn’t wait to leave, not a wonderful experience for him .
He’s now doing a PhD in Edinburgh, he’s absolutely loving it.

I'd second places like Edinburgh or St Andrews. St Andrews is really remote - a good 1.5 hours from Edinburgh and you can only get to the university by combination of train and bus. Great for the on campus feel, bad for wanting to come home. Edinburgh is very accessible though, it's no problem to get a train at that age, she can just read on the train.

Oxbridge is fine if she is likely to want a career that only needs pure academic success. But Oxbridge students are heavily discouraged from having part-time jobs (and from what I can see little time to take one up anyway, even in the holidays) and working/life experience is increasingly critical these days for graduates seeking their first careers. Without it they can really struggle to find material in competency based interviewing (I speak as a seasoned recruiter.)Employers usually want the 360 degree person - redbrick/Russell group Uni, 2:1 or higher, plus some life skills to complement the degree.

I’d base it on whatever university is best for her chosen subject, and has the best employment links or prospects…

There is also flying, not the best for the environment I know but it’s a short flight to the SE