Top Unis - am I missing something?

[OnTheRoll]

DD is in Year 13, predicted 3 A, already has an A from a language A Level she did last year, and 11 GCSEs all 8/9. Got a great work experience in her chosen field, lots of academic reading, etc., etc. Has been working very hard and aiming for a top uni.

The problem is, it seems that unless she gets into Oxbridge, there isn't a suitable option for her?

We are in SE so decided not to go for Durham/Edinburg as the travel is just too much, 5+ hours, and she would not be able to come home more than once a term. She would very much prefer a campus experience rather than a city uni which rules out LSE/UCL in London.

There are of course great options like Warwick, Bristol, Bath, Exeter. We visited and DD loved them and so did I.

But I cannot help thinking that if she were to go to one of those unis she didn't really need to spend that much time working, studying and sacrificing her free time. Does it make sense? Entry requirements in those unis in her subject are all quite lower than her current and predicted grades.

Would appreciate some perspective.

It sounds to me like a gap year might be worthwhile to have a little time to think about options? It seems like one of the main issues is not knowing how she will feel in September 2025 and this worry may cloud decisions.
A gap year, then applying for 2026 entry with grades in hand might be the way to go?

This is very wise advice from @SunSparkle . I suspect your Dd has spent too much time studying and not enough on things like sport/ hobbies/ music / drama / part time job / volunteering . These things can help her mature, work out who she is and what she wants and learn some life skills that will help her at uni and in her career.

No bright child should have had to sacrifice everything to get good grades at GCSE - most of the clever ones get these grades as well as doing all of the above.

So either she’s not as bright as you think she is. Or she isn’t good at working out how much studying she needs to do. Or her study and exam techniques are poor. Or she is lacking in confidence and is using studying as a way to avoid other social situations.

Normally I’d assume that she’s doing all this work because she loves her subjects and finds them fascinating. But if that was the case, she wouldn’t think the work was a “waste of time”. And she wouldn’t be scared to go to a good uni in case everyone was cleverer than her. She would want to go to a top uni because everyone will be smarter than her.

So yes there’s something going on for her and she needs some advice and support, there’s certainly an issue . Just not the one you outline in your OP ( my daughter is too clever for most Uk unis ).

Hello. I can tell you from experience that students often way exceed the entry criteria. And the fact your daughter is likely to score well in a levels doesn’t really translate to it being pointless to have worked hard etc. Cambridge and Oxford have a lot offer but the style of teaching is not for everyone. The issue of having to travel is one you can attach a lot or little importance but most students don’t travel home that much in term time. London for Politics is brilliant as so much is accessible, government ministers giving talks all the time so something to consider. I think maybe your daughter’s criteria of what she wants is too rigid and I’d encourage flexibility.

Without rtft just OP's posts

Sounds like your dd should have a gap year and regroup. If they feel Edinburgh/Durham are right for them then the distance issue may not be such a thing when they're a bit more mature

She's right that Cambridge will be EXTREMELY hard work, I have a dc currently applying to Oxford who has the same reservations and ultimately IF they get an offer it's theirs to accept or decline. Having said that, I think they're saying all this because we're in limbo right now waiting to hear if they has an interview so they're trying to convince themself it's not what they want anyway. Your dd may well be the same.

You're telling her Oxbridge will be fine because you obviously - and understandably - want her to go there, and it probably will be fine but it won't be the uni experience you get elsewhere. She'll end up in the workplace with colleagues who went elsewhere and still do brilliantly - so will still have the why did I bother feeling. That was my experience of Oxbrige and life afterwards, anyway ...

I have another child who failed to get into Oxford who's doing very well at a uni you're ruling out on distance grounds. They got four A stars and are by no means alone, it's a super-bright peer group. But they undoubtedly don't have to work as hard to stay top of the year and have a lot of fun on the side.

The really important issue is that no 'child' (of 18+) should reject a uni which ticks lots of boxes because of the distance, within reason.
IMO a 3 hour train ride is doable for a student or their family.

Terms are 10 weeks. Holidays are long.
Parents can usually manage 1 trip per term which means their child has only 5 weeks without seeing them.

Uni is about building resilience and independence not simply getting a degree.

It's about exploring new places and broadening horizons.

No one is being 'packed off' what a silly thing to say.

OP - it would seem many posters have put words in your mouth or made unfair assumptions about your DD. The UK university system is fairly bonkers, for want of a better word, so you are not alone in your angst.

It would seem your DD is bright and hard working, like many, many students in the UK. She has applied for Cambridge and two campus universities, having discounted Scottish and London Universities, which is not an uncommon thing to do. Did your DD express a wish to apply to Oxbridge or was it pushed by her school? Again, many, many students with 3 or 4 Astar predictions don't apply to Oxbridge because they don't want to be in that environment for 3 years.

In your later posts you state your DD doesn't want to go to Cambridge and would be happy to go to either Bristol, Bath, Exeter or Warwick. Is it just you that has a problem with that and have you now been reassured by other posters that your DD won't stand out as academically special if she does choose any of those universities? She's not throwing her life away. If she does need the prestige of Oxbridge/LSE to forge an international career (once she is sure of her career path; they often change) she could apply for a masters there after she has her undergrad degree.

My daughter was at school with one of these Oxbridge or nothing parent / child dysfunctionality. If your daughter thinks she can ONLY fit in with a specific type of person she might benefit from getting a job alongside her studies in order to broaden her people skills, as you say, her academic side clearly doesn't need more effort. I hope she finds somewhere she feels comfortable

@OnTheRoll - ultimately, it just seems such a mistake to rule out universities north of Warwick. There are so many fabulous universities in fabulous towns and cities north of Warwick.

We’re in the south. Our elder daughter is at a Scottish uni. She gets back by train occasionally - she often uses the journey time to work. And with student discounts, the train fare is not too expensive. Flights take about 1 hour. It is very doable.

Just basing uni choice on distance from home is going to rule out a lot of really interesting universities and courses and is definitely worth rethinking.

It is many years since I was at university but the people who struggled most with homesickness were the ones who went home most often. This was true for both students at my uni and people I had been at school with. Going 'home' at weekends severely affects your uni friendships. If your DD thinks she might find it hard to settle then she would be better further away.

As a PP has said, there are always other options for a Masters.

TBH a first degree is only the starting point nowadays for any highflying career.

There are other options for Masters or PhDs / MBAs.

Queen Mary College, University of London has a campus.

Missing the point, but where in the SE is over 5 hours from London?

Oxbridge is the most prestigious but then I'd say Durham/Edinburgh/Warwick/York/Bath/Exeter/LSE/UCL much of a muchness to future employers. A bit course-dependent really. Adding things to the CV - SU/JCR roles, work experience etc will give more weight

Yes, this. I can't understand what makes anyone think what Warwick, Bath, York and Exeter aren't up there with the best no Oxbridge unis. Durham and St Andrews possibly maintain a bit of (false) status above the others due to their age and reputation as the default places for Oxbridge rejects. But I don't think they're better in reality. As I said earlier, I went to Durham and yet was rejected by Warwick.

If your daughter has a firm offer from Warwick and is happy to go there, then I would grab it if I were her and relax with the decision made. It's not a pretty place like Oxbridge, Durham, York or Bath and I really valued being in a beautiful, old, small city. Those 5 cities are still my favourite places in the UK. But your daughter has said she wants Campus and Warwick certainly fits the bill - I remember thinking it felt very safe, very 'complete' but also a bit weird - no old people or dogs just endless students. Perfect for many, including your daughter by the sound of it. And most people there will have clutches of A*, I'd pretty much guarantee it. I think she will be very happy and fufilled at Warwick.

Oxbridge used to give unconditional offers based solely on the entrance exam and interview. But, local authority grants were dependent on matriculation, which required a minimum of two A level passes.

I didn't know Oxford did two E offers in the 1980s. I know some colleges there still did closed scholarships. I had to ask what that meant, it's when a college has a certain number of places reserved for kids who went to a particular school like say Eton. Shocking, well I was shocked.
I had a two E offer from UCL and there was a lad on my course who actually stopped working and got two Es! I didn't really mix with his crowd so I don't know what happened to him.
Sorry none of this is anything to do with the thread.

While I disagree with your view that Durham, Edinburgh and UCL are, along with Oxbridge, the exclusive and prestigious homes of bright young things, while Warwick and Bristol (with the same entry requirements) are mere holes in the ground, that isn't particularly relevant to thinking strategically about her applications.

If she is trying for Cambridge and has an offer from Warwick that she is happy with and confident she will meet, she could just stop there and apply nowhere else. If she wants to add others to apply to, there seems to be little point in adding places with lower entry requirements than Warwick if she definitely would choose Warwick over them if she got the grades.

If it were me, I would advise her to add: 1) a university in a place that meets her preferences and is roughly on a par with Warwick, e.g., Bristol, Bath, in case notoriously marmite Warwick should fall out of favour. Alternatively, she could use this slot for a big city university with a more thriving and diverse political scene, e.g., Manchester; 2) Durham, in case she decides in the end that she would sacrifice coming home often for the friendship potential of a college environment, as the ability to make friends easily seems to be important to her; 3) LSE, in case she decides that the commute and costs are worth it for the opportunities that London provides for someone studying politics.

That kind of mix would keep her options open (supposing she gets offers from all of them) if she is rejected by Cambridge. A rejection from Cambridge necessarily forces people who had up to that point really been focussed only on Cambridge and been a bit whatever about all the other universities to really focus on what actually is important to them. Of course, if she gets an offer from Cambridge and meets it, then great!

I would also advise her that there will be many students just as bright and high achieving as her at universities like Warwick, so she should not count on being able to stop working hard and still be the best. For reference, this is data on students who started the politics & IS degree at Warwick in 2023/24:

Predicted 3 A stars in their best 3 A Levels - 21%
2 A stars, 1 A - 26%
1 A star, 2 As - 28%

The proportion with top grades will be even higher for the straight politics degree rather than politics and IS and possibly a bit lower for politics & history.

Completely agree with you@Delphiniumandlupins when you say this:

“It is many years since I was at university but the people who struggled most with homesickness were the ones who went home most often. This was true for both students at my uni and people I had been at school with. Going 'home' at weekends severely affects your uni friendships. If your DD thinks she might find it hard to settle then she would be better further away.”

Anyway, why is she considering Oxbridge if she wants a campus experience?

My youngest is at a Uni you haven't mentioned with 11 GCSEs,all 9s, 4Astars plus external competitions so is very academic. He is finding the Uni course challenging (but enjoyable) because the Uni he is at has an excellent reputation for his subject. He is making friends with students who all achieved high grades. He didn't want a Campus like Warwick, especially due to Yr2 living areas.

Conversely his friend at Cambridge 'only achieved' 2 Astars A and is finding the course too intense plus limited social opportunities. He was contextual, as was another boy who achieved AAB but waa still offered his place at Oxford.

Oxbridge has a positive perception no doubt, however all graduate schemes are assessments centres which look for much more than academics. After a few years no one cares which Uni you went to as academics play only a small part in a person's success.

I think you need to make peace with the fact your daughter may decide to go to a Uni that you believe isn't as prestigious.

I think this is true, but it could be that they went home more often because they were homesick in the first place.

We were trying to sell my late MIL's house when DD went to university. It happened to be quite near where she was so we visited a couple of times during the first term. I think that prevented any homesickness DD might have had.

A lot of Oxbridge candidates go thru this angst. Some apply to USA, or European programmes as a backup.

Recommend, to visit the other Top Unis that are best in DC area of study. You might find that there is another Uni where DC will be happy.

DN, went upset not getting Oxford, his dad, all 1/2 siblings went there. He applied to one of most competitive colleges & major. He got rejected and was going to go to another country “to live” was so upset. In the end, took up his offer at another excellent uni and has moved on.

Just because it’s Oxbridge, doesn’t make it any worse than for any other student doesn’t get their top choice.

I think it's also important to understand that the grades offered are the minimum. There will be lots of students with A*s at the unis mentioned. There will also be students who get more then the minimum offer who don't get a place.

Non issue

Do you know lancaster? It's fantastic for students. During term time you'd very much view it as a student city. Its small and compact and the bars and clubs are jam packed

And that's on her for doing 4 A levels when it's not needed from a UCAS points pov? Great if she's enjoyed doing the subjects but universities will generally make their offers with the standard 3 A level subjects in mind. My dd's old school wouldn't let people do 4 A levels unless one was FM. They said it was of no benefit. Not sure if I'd go that far but it's not needed.