Top Unis - am I missing something?

[OnTheRoll]

DD is in Year 13, predicted 3 A, already has an A from a language A Level she did last year, and 11 GCSEs all 8/9. Got a great work experience in her chosen field, lots of academic reading, etc., etc. Has been working very hard and aiming for a top uni.

The problem is, it seems that unless she gets into Oxbridge, there isn't a suitable option for her?

We are in SE so decided not to go for Durham/Edinburg as the travel is just too much, 5+ hours, and she would not be able to come home more than once a term. She would very much prefer a campus experience rather than a city uni which rules out LSE/UCL in London.

There are of course great options like Warwick, Bristol, Bath, Exeter. We visited and DD loved them and so did I.

But I cannot help thinking that if she were to go to one of those unis she didn't really need to spend that much time working, studying and sacrificing her free time. Does it make sense? Entry requirements in those unis in her subject are all quite lower than her current and predicted grades.

Would appreciate some perspective.

I do think people need to stop blaming the OP for her daughter's choices and restrictions around where she's prepared to go!

She might just need a year out to reconsider, look around and make calmer decisions.

Sorry if I came across as abrasive but what is it that these YP didn't enjoy about being a student in London? What was so isolating about it?

Agreed. I'd she wants to go to Oxbridge, good for her. But other universities are available and she may be a better fit for one. I'm currently doing a top up degree at an ex polytechnic university. I was really disappointed that it would no longer be with my local university that is very good. But I've been really impressed with the teaching and the university as a whole. It's been much better than the module I did with the University of.

Another reason you and she may be agonising more than is needed us that, if she is as bright as you think, she is likely to go on to masters. Having been responsible for PG admissions myself, I can confidently say that no-one would be selecting applicants from one Russell group uni over another. They would be looking at UG marks profile, statement, interview and references, though Oxbridge might be noticed alongside other considerations. Most PG admissions tutors with any sense would also select a strong applicant from a non-russell group uni with weaker A levels who has clearly thrived and excelled in a uni environment. I really would encourage her to pay more attention to what she thinks she will like and less attention to the ever changing league tables.

I believe the main thing DD is struggling with is just not being sure what she will feel like next September. How difficult it would be to study further from home. Or how she would feel about commuting to classes in London. She just doesn't know and yet she is supposed to make choices for the next 3 years based on what she is feeling now.

Most of them aren't completely sure.

DD1 had worse AS level results than predicted (40% of A-levels here) so we had to radically rethink where she could apply then with only a few visits left she suddenly wanted to look at a completely different subject area - a better fit I felt - so her ucas application was for two very different courses. She got offers and is now year 2 in the later subject area and loving it - the location and course.

DS been better just before we started open days he decided he may be interested in another subject - so they've manged to look round both departments - he's going with second subject.

Mine are generally excited about next stage - if she not perhaps she need more time before going.

I'm a little confused as to why you seem to think that all 18 year olds are self sufficient, completely independent, have no SEN or physical disabilities, don't have family members at home who may be ill, never suffer from homesickness or any other myriad reasons why many students do want to go home for the odd weekend

Just as an add my DS did joint honours, politics and economics.
A lot of people he knew dropped the economics as it was too hard.
He is at the houses of Parliament today.
He did not go to a RG University.

My DD went to a campus university for her first degree. She didn't enjoy it. She's now at a city University and commutes.

FWIW after the bachelor degrees Oxford sees a drop-off of all highly tutored students. Further study is just too hard or the students have had enough.

I was a council house kid who obtained two Oxford degrees. One Brookes because North Oxford didn't teach my subject at Masters level.
I have a soft spot for both universities.

Some kids also don't see the point of paying for flights back and forth when they can get a cheap local train. And some enjoy seeing their families.

Being close to your family and enjoying their company doesn't affect your intellectual abilities you know.

Warwick, Bristol, Bath and Exeter are top unis, aren't they?

I went to Durham but I was rejected from Warwick. Offers for both were AAA (old money A Levels so long before A* was a thing but still, the Warwick offer was the same is my point).

My understanding is that Artsy subjects (which would include Politics) often require higher grades than techically harder subjects due to demand. My offers for English Literature were mostly As whereas my sister's offers for a Science were much lower for the same standard of universities (Bs and Cs for St Andrews, Edinburgh and Manchester). Her subject was harder but not as many people wanted to do it so the grades required were less competitive. Maybe it's not the case nowadays though.

4 A*s will count for diddly squat if she hasn't the social skills to cope with being away from home.

My children came up with their choices this way:

-Which is the best uni for their subject?
-What are their entry requirements?
-Visit all the possibles and see which city they liked the best, based on location, accommodation, social life.

It wasn't too hard and they came up with their 6, all Russell Group top 10.

One loved the city and didn't want a campus style uni.

The other was a bit indifferent to the city (they didn't get their first choice but did enjoy their time there.)

I think the issue here @OnTheRoll is that your daughter is muddying the water somewhat by not being ready to leave home. You've said so many things that point to this. And you're complicating it all by thinking that 'after all her hard work no other uni is going to be suitable.'

You're part of the problem.

Just go with which course is most interesting to her and how she feels about the place.

Politics degrees can be very different.
Personally, if she’s got a reduced offer from Warwick and she likes the course and uni, then why fill up any more spaces for the sake of it? None of my children put down 5. They all got their first choice - none liked Cambridge as a city or the course - so didn’t put it down. If they were going to be in that much debt at the end of it, we wanted them to have the best fit to have an enjoyable time and do their best.

I think the days of Oxbridge being an indication of ultimate cleverness finally went with Boris.

My child that would have suited the Oxbridge style (and I believe would have flown through the interviews) and achieved similar grades, didn’t go to uni as what they wanted to get on with their dream job and the job didn’t require a degree.

I think you have to be realistic that the academic standard of oxbridge ‘rejects’ at all the top unis will be high. I was a straight A student who didn’t get into Oxford but so were gazillions of people on my course. My nephew has 4A* and is at one of the universities on your list.i suspect most of the people on his course will have a similar profile. You shouldn’t have the attitude of oxbridge or nothing as so many brilliant young people don’t make it in.

A levels also do matter in the future. When I was sifting for interns I used to go back to gcse and a-levels as there wasn’t enough to distinguish between all the candidates with 2:1s from top unis and a clutch of extra circular activities.

I agree with you.
I think you meant to quote the poster I was replying to?
DD was at Newcastle, and for her Bristol friends it was cheaper to fly back to Bristol than get a train.

But terms are 10 weeks. And parents can travel to see their child.

Yes I did, sorry!

I would say that having done so well in her a-levels sets her up very well for study at uni, especially in her first year. And then she can enjoy the social aspect of it!

DD got 13 x 9s 4 x A* and chose a course at the local uni with a ABB offer. She is doing very well and getting a lot of additional work experience. She rejected an offer from Cambridge. There is no 'best', just what is best for her.

If you’re in the SE could you look at Edinburgh flights as an option for her to come home more easily? Some of the smaller cities with airports have dirt cheap flights to Scotland. Edinburgh has great tram and bus links to the airport and if you live near enough to an airport to pick her up then the distance might be less of a barrier.

Re "feeling inferior to super-bright students" - most Cambridge students are not super-bright and they do have fun.

She's right however to identify that it is a higher pressure environment than all the other choices she is considering. She'd also learn more and have a world class education. And longer holidays.

Does she know any current Cambs students, or could her school put her in touch with some, to help her understand what the trade offs and benefits might look like?

I also second looking at Bath, Bristol, Sheffield - all around 2h by train from central London. Sheffield and Bristol aren't campuses of course, but both great cities. Sheffield has a very compact city centre and is usually at the top of students satisfaction surveys.

My twins went to Cambridge and did v well. It does open doors in lots of careers. It’s hard work there and they were v bright-one received a 2 EE offer. But, it’s very intense as the terms are only 8 weeks long. There’s time for fun but travelling home took out too much time for work and fun. They are collegiate.
Have you considered Nottingham? That’s campus based, mid England and has a good reputation.
Agree London unis require travel. I wouldn’t ever have travel time as a priority tho. You can get cheap flights to EdinburgH.

But terms are 10 weeks. And parents can travel to see their child.

It's generally easier for one student to travel home than parents, sibs, pets etc to travel to see them.
Mine never came home in term time but she said lots of her friends did for the odd weekend. Completely normal and unremarkable for some kids to want to do this! And completely normal and unremarkable some don't.

My daughter went to St Andrews from Northamptonshire and loved it. The train link is actually very good if you are on the east coast mainline. They have a system for freshers where they have their academic family, older students who are their ‘parents’ etc. It isn’t a campus university but the town is the campus as it’s small. Lots of societies to keep them busy.

This. DD1 was at Exeter. We used to get a holiday cottage during October half term and take DD2 to visit her. I have wonderful memories of DD1 sitting at the kitchen table in this tiny cottage and us plying her with food/coffee whilst she wrote an important essay. She was so grateful as it was so much easier for her than her having to feed herself etc

DD2 I went and visited her in Scotland. It took me over 12 hours on the train but it was well worth it. Stunning views from the train.

I had fun as well as my DDs

Edited for appalling typos

one received a 2 EE offer.

That must have been a long time ago!