Top Unis - am I missing something?

[OnTheRoll]

DD is in Year 13, predicted 3 A, already has an A from a language A Level she did last year, and 11 GCSEs all 8/9. Got a great work experience in her chosen field, lots of academic reading, etc., etc. Has been working very hard and aiming for a top uni.

The problem is, it seems that unless she gets into Oxbridge, there isn't a suitable option for her?

We are in SE so decided not to go for Durham/Edinburg as the travel is just too much, 5+ hours, and she would not be able to come home more than once a term. She would very much prefer a campus experience rather than a city uni which rules out LSE/UCL in London.

There are of course great options like Warwick, Bristol, Bath, Exeter. We visited and DD loved them and so did I.

But I cannot help thinking that if she were to go to one of those unis she didn't really need to spend that much time working, studying and sacrificing her free time. Does it make sense? Entry requirements in those unis in her subject are all quite lower than her current and predicted grades.

Would appreciate some perspective.

I sort of understand where you are coming from OP. If not Oxbridge/Scotland/London there's not one or two obvious high tier prestigious Universities next in line which scoop up all the rest of the A/Astar students.

However, the perspective you need is that Bath, Bristol, Warwick (not so sure about Exeter's A level acceptances) are full of bright, academic students, many with 3 or 4 A/Astars and a string of 8s and 9s at GCSE. If your DD liked them, she should apply to them and continue to work hard and do the best she can. She could apply for summer internships and live in London once she has found her feet and gained confidence living away from home.

However, if her career really would benefit from being in London or Edinburgh instead, she could take a gap year and go when she feels more able to cope with the distance/big city life.

But I cannot help thinking that if she were to go to one of those unis she didn't really need to spend that much time working, studying and sacrificing her free time. Does it make sense? Entry requirements in those unis in her subject are all quite lower than her current and predicted grades.

You are missing the fact that a lot of students who received offers from "top" RG universities, such as the ones your dd has applied to, will have exceeded the grades that they needed to obtain a place on the course.

This isn't the same for everyone though.

My son has met a lovely bunch of people at UCL. They are already forming groups for potential flat shares next year.

London is an amazing vibrant city to be a student in.

We are in SW, but plenty of kids at DD's school end up at Durham or Edinburgh. Apart from the first term's drop off they tend to fly. With a bit of forward planning the flights can be very cheap.

There are early morning flights from Bristol up to Newcastle (metro, then a short train ride to Durham) and Edinburgh so some early risers even flew up and back home that night after Open Days.

OP doesn't say where in SE she is, but presumably Gatwick or Heathrow can't be too far away?

I’ve literally said in my post that doesn’t suit everyone…

Absolutely. If the OP's DD doesn't get into Cambridge she will find herself at one of these other "not top unis" surrounded by other students who are all just like her, have pretty much the same grades as her, are used to being top of the class, and probably also got rejected by Oxford or Cambridge.

It sounds like it's about time she was a small fish in a big pond.

What's so different about the London university experience that makes it bad?

Mine ruled out London because she really didn't like the idea of needing to travel in it. Some people just aren't big city types.

There's so many good unis that unless there's very specific reasons, there's absolutely no need to push teenagers much beyond their own comfort limits sooner than they want. Dd is now perfectly happy using the tube in London and visiting friends there - it just wasn't necessary for her to include imperial in her choices because there were plenty of others.

Why do some people not seem to understand this and be thinking this is about the OPs preferences not the daughter's?

YABVU. She should work hard to fulfill her potential, not to get into one of two specific universities.

I got 4 A* and went to Oxbridge. When I got there I really struggled with my mental health and ended up dropping out after first year and going to a local polytechnic where I got a first. I have autism which wasn’t diagnosed at the time and was probably a factor in me struggling to fit in.

After uni I ended up joining the Civil Service fast stream, alongside lots of oxbridge grads and a sprinkling of fellow poly grads. It made zero difference. I was the first in my cohort to get to the Senior Civil Service and no one ever asked which uni I went to for professional reasons - it’s only ever come up in causal conversation.

You/your daughter’s mindset is very off. If she goes through life expecting the very best of everything because she’s ’put the effort in’ she’s going to get a very rude awakening.
she has lazy reasons for rejecting two great northern universities, and social ones for rejecting great city universities. She seems to want everything on her terms.
about time she grew up, no?

Should grownups really be insulting a seventeen year old as lazy etc for agonising over a university choice?

She sounds like she may benefit from a gap year. Work/travel/volunteer/learn to drive and have chance to think about what she wants.
Have you looked at Queens Belfast? Becoming more popular with GB students as it’s affordable (all GB get £3000 scholarship yr1) and easy cheap flights from uk, some interesting politics modules.
Mine is enjoying yr1 politics and common law in Glasgow - several southern English kids in her friend group. Flight or direct train to London. All seem to have top grades - again they pay £1000 scholarship for rest of uk to students with top grades.

We are in SE so decided not to go for Durham/Edinburg as the travel is just too much, 5+ hours, and she would not be able to come home more than once a term. She would very much prefer a campus experience rather than a city uni which rules out LSE/UCL in London.

Students don't normally come home during term and it would be a mistake to encourage her to keep popping home to you. She certainly won't be expected to go home at all during an Oxbridge term (which is shorter, so they're expected to work harder). Oxford and Cambridge are city universities, not campuses.

@hydriotaphia theres agonising and then there’s being whiny because the ‘best’ options aren’t right on her doorstep

But has she enjoyed the courses or has she resented the hard work?

It was millennia ago, but I got turned down for a job with the Post Office because, although I had a first, I didn't get any As in my A levels. (Dodged a bullet, in retrospect!)

If she wants to study "politics" I don't see it makes much difference where she goes - it isn't a proper subject. She might as well do "journalism" or "gender studies" anywhere.

At least with PPE it's a broader subject - although I'm not convinced about the "E" bit.

(And I speak as a graduate of the London School of Economics and Political Science - of which the last two words at least are oxymoronic...)

I believe the main thing DD is struggling with is just not being sure what she will feel like next September. How difficult it would be to study further from home. Or how she would feel about commuting to classes in London. She just doesn't know and yet she is supposed to make choices for the next 3 years based on what she is feeling now.

But all prospective Uni students could say that, you could go to all the open days, offer days and read about the course in detail and it is still a leap of faith for all of them. The fact that your DD is really struggling with this says to me (and clearly a few other PPs) that she is not ready for Uni and would benefit from taking a year out.

And you're clearly being snobby and don't understand how the Uni offer system works. Whilst the likes of Maths and Astrophysics may require high grades in subjects like Maths and F Maths to actually keep up with the work (because it's bloody difficult) I think the majority of Uni courses with high grade requirements ask for those grades because the courses are so popular and oversubscribed (especially in the RG ones) that they can attract people with those grades.

It's always interesting to compare the required grades on websites with the grades required for the same course at the same Uni in clearing.

My DD wants to do linguistics with a language at Lancaster which is rated 3rd in the CUG after Oxford and Cambridge, so you do need to dig down and not assume that the famous RG ones are the automatic choice. Crucially, my DD is excited about going, it hasn't even occurred to her whether other people there will be more or less clever than her. The fact that your DD is worried about this would be a concern for me.

I am not going to comment on your agony over university choices apart from saying that your DD needs to learn about the concept of trade offs. Especially important in politics. May be a gap year is a good idea.

I will comment about internships/jobs - it absolutely doesn’t matter if she is getting a degree in politics from Oxford/LSE/Warwick ot Bath. It’s all about hundreds of soul destroying psychometric tests, job simulation, one way video interviews, assessment centres etc. Towards the end when you actually get to meet a human, it’s about fit/personality/pesonal charisma. But certainly not about university or A levels. As long as you meet the minimum requirements of course - which is usually 2:1 from an RG and decent A levels. Does a first from Oxford help? Pergaps, especially if you apply to law. But it’s not a differentiator. Depending on what she wants to do a politics degree might be of dubious value.

An odd problem. I have a few points to add, I'm from Cambridge, dull fenland market town that it is, its not a campus no matter what the University think. The colleges are tiny so not campuses either smaller than some boarding schools, and at least one, Emmauel is actually part of the bus station.
Secondly much as I despise LSE I'm pretty sure they do politics and they are a sort of campus and their halls are really near by, or at least some of them are, I had to share a hall with them. I went to UCL, two of my pals got firsts and they are both professors so I think you can be super smart and not go to oxbridge.
And thirdly Mary Beard taught at KCL before she went back to Cambridge, she said the calibre of the students and what they asked and wrote was exactly the same. Which is obviously what you would expect.
However it's always nerve wracking, big life changes, I guess all you can do is what you are doing which is supporting her. My clever pals from UC said that where you get your first degree isnt as important and where you do your PhD at least I think that's what they said, I went off to be a secondary school teacher.

Christ.

Of course they shouldn't. But some people really get a kick out of it

Hi there,
For perspective: My DD got as far as an interview at Cambridge, HOWEVER it wasn't her first choice - she wanted London (UCL) because the course content and professional recognition was the best (in her opinion). She also wanted the city social life and friendships, and would only be living about an hour or so from us.
UCL has Halls, a Student Union bar and plenty going on. DD did not miss out because there wasn't one huge campus.
I'd get your DD to check out the course content of her preferred Unis before she makes a decision.

I wonder if your daughter should think about a gap year if she is that uncertain? It would give her time to reassess her choices over this year and evaluate exactly what she wants to do.
She may also be able to defer her place, if she wants to.

The offer days they run in spring of yr 13 if she gets an offer can be a great way to decide. They are more in detail than open days and the teens usually go off and have sample lectures etc. We stayed overnight and had a really good look at uni, accommodation, city. I said to dc can you see yourself here for 3/4 years.

My dd comes home 3 or 4 times a term.

Not sure why that is anyway relevant.

She's on for a first and has started getting grad job interviews. She also has a boyfriend, a busy social life and she's on a sports team.

She loves coming home to see her siblings and dogs and we love having her.

Mumsnet is full of very cold parents.