Top Unis - am I missing something?

[OnTheRoll]

DD is in Year 13, predicted 3 A, already has an A from a language A Level she did last year, and 11 GCSEs all 8/9. Got a great work experience in her chosen field, lots of academic reading, etc., etc. Has been working very hard and aiming for a top uni.

The problem is, it seems that unless she gets into Oxbridge, there isn't a suitable option for her?

We are in SE so decided not to go for Durham/Edinburg as the travel is just too much, 5+ hours, and she would not be able to come home more than once a term. She would very much prefer a campus experience rather than a city uni which rules out LSE/UCL in London.

There are of course great options like Warwick, Bristol, Bath, Exeter. We visited and DD loved them and so did I.

But I cannot help thinking that if she were to go to one of those unis she didn't really need to spend that much time working, studying and sacrificing her free time. Does it make sense? Entry requirements in those unis in her subject are all quite lower than her current and predicted grades.

Would appreciate some perspective.

Predicted grades increase the chances of receiving an offer (alongside PS, interview, possibly work experience and extra/supra-curricular activities), but do not guarantee an offer, not only from Oxbridge, but from many other great universities where the standard offer may be lower for a particular course.

Predicted grades do not always get achieved either, this is not to be taken for granted. Lots can happen on or around exam days, or at any point between now and then.

So no, the effort is not "wasted". Apart from the knowledge she has gained, your DD is in a good position to choose a good course at a good university but the worst strategy would be to put all eggs in one basket. You get 5 choices, use them even if it means compromising on distance/campus vs city etc. You may well need your back up options, even with her current predicted grades, one never knows.

Predicated grades are just predictions. Kids miss out on their predicated grades all the time. Often by more than one grade. For god's sake don't even hint she takes her foot off the peddal.

If she gets those grades great. But there is no guarentee whatsoever. Even with her high grades there is no guarentee she will get offers from the universities that you mention as being just about ok for you. It depends on the other candidates and the volume of applications. They might all be predicated A*. If your daughter already had the grades and was applying after her A levels during a gap year you might have a tiny bit of a point. But wait to see what she is offered yet. She will be very lucky to get offered a place at any Russell group university. Just focus on encouraging her to work and on her possible good fortune. Your fussiness is goign to rub off on her if you are not careful.

And look again at Durham - five hours is nothing. Is it you who wants her home mid term? She can have no idea how she might feel. If she is that nervous perhaps a year out would be best. She might need to grow up a little more to be more confident.

You can’t go wrong with a Russell Group university.

But for some subjects, a particular RG might be weaker than others, including non-RG.

Not true

I agree.

I also think OP will be doing her daughter a huge disservice if she conveys to her that Oxbridge is the be all and end all. It really isn't.

Personally, I'd avoid Lancaster or Stirling as examples of overly campus focused universities, where the gap between town and gown is very noticeable.

But if you wanted a pure campus experience then the University of the M6 Lancaster would be perfect.

It's just a matter of the type of university experience you want.

Oh I agree, but the OP was fixating on league tables and future employment.

This is like someone in Liverpool saying they have no options because they don't want to travel as far south as Ox/Cam or as far north as Durham... she's made her decisions about distance and type of campus, she needs to get on with choosing from the available options.

I don't really know what you were expecting, and I think implying she shouldn't have bothered to work so hard is a terrible attitude. Studying hard will set her up well to succeed at uni wherever she goes, and to succeed in her career. Only working to the required standard and no more will not see her achieve her potential...

As someone who has interviewed including recent uni graduates this makes no sense. People who prefer to live at home can of course interview well. No correlation.

You don't make any sense.
University choice is up to your child - 5 hrs away is nothing if that's the best course & University for her.

Good grades open up her options - you're listing Russell Group Universities, so the best of the bunch, which will have the most demanding grade requirements.

Have you looked at direct entry to second year for the Scottish Unis - if the main reason to discount Edinburgh is the 4 year degree, it might not even be an issue!

But positions in league tables shift each year, and the position for politics may be much higher/ lower than the overall university. I think you are placing too much emphasis on the idea of 'top' unis. Of course Cambridge would give her an advantage, IF she is happy and confident there. However, I don't think there are many employers left in the UK who would consistently distinguish between different Russell group unis, rather than looking more holistically at the applicant. Undergrads now only get a loan for a max of four years so, unless you are wealthy, there is not always the option to switch unis after a bad choice. I would encourage her to pay more attention to the flavour of the courses and the feel of the campus and pick somewhere she feels comfortable but excited by. Check out the research profiles of the staff who will teach her. Read some of their papers / books. Watch video clips of them at conferences. Who inspires her? The effort she has put in for high achievement will never be wasted. It has given her good study skills and taught her what it is like to focus single mindedly on achievement at the expense of other things, which will inform her future approach to work/life balance. Seeing your other post about her response to Cambridge - if she decides Cambridge might be too stressful it will be impossible to know whether she would have got over the 'imposter syndrome' or whether she's wise and self-aware enough to realise it would have seriously undermined her. Therefore, I wouldn't encourage her either way, unless you know she always underestimates herself. Whatever she chooses, it looks like she has the potential to make any uni work well for her!

Also if she wants to stay closer to home then of course that is a perfectly reasonable choice - don't understand everyone being so negative about that on here!

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/politics
Warwick 6 - campus Uni
Baths 10 - it's a campus uni
Birmingham 16 - lovely campus uni in city
York 18
Manchester 19 - it's in city but grouped together
Nottingham 20 - campus Uni again

It's not like having good A-level counts against her in life and with good predicated grades she has a wide as possible choice available to her now - she hasn't limited her options with the hard work.

In some subjects these uni do require really high A-level results - Warwick Politics BA is asking for AAA - and quick look though many of the economic and politics want A*AA.

I'd try and have more than just the Oxbridge option she is really happy with just in case it doesn't pan out.

Do you know that most 'Top' universities only count 'A' levels taken in one sitting unless the early one is maths in order to be able to take further maths the following year, so she will be the same as everyone else applying with 3 A stars. (At Cambridge that will be everyone)

My son applied after a gap year with grades in hand. He had no exam result that wasn't A star. He was accepted instantly by Bristol, then Oxford but rejected by Edinburgh. Presumably he wasn't what they were looking for, and that's absolutely fine. He went to Oxford and thrived.

Remember that a large part of the Oxbridge application process is the interview. Being shy will not help her I am afraid, they need students who will actively participate. I can't imagine many people go home for weekends from either Oxford or Cambridge they have too much work to do.

You need to stop thinking of her as a child, and help her to make a list of universities which are suitable for her and don't involve her feeling that she has to flee home for family birthdays. You and she should realise that she will not be cleverer than most of the other students. Honestly it's not very clever not to be able to function outside the home counties.

'Love is in the letting go'

It's completely reasonable to stay close to home, but more unreasonable to say there are no universities good enough for DD when it needs to be both close to home and a campus uni. Something has to give.

This really won’t matter in 10 years time.

As PP have said, politics is a very broad subject and if she goes to any decent uni and does well it won’t make much difference to her career prospects. Oxbridge would obviously be great if she got in.

Edinburgh is a great uni, as is Glasgow. I wouldn’t discount them or Durham due to travel.

If she doesn’t get in to Oxbridge, i would urge her to go the uni and city she feels most comfortable in. Also worth considering if they offer study abroad as that’s a great options for politics.

Lots of people from the SE go to Durham and Edinburgh.

And Exeter - beautiful campus uni and 13th on that list.

Lol!!! DD was an Oxbridge reject and is now in her third year at Bath studying Politics and IR and is currently home for reading week. She is locked in her room studying all day, aiming for a first. It is insulting OP to insinuate she is not having to work hard. Her BF is doing CS at Bath (already has 2 graduate jobs offers), the entry requirements are x2 A stars and and A. Lets hope for your sake your DD gets an offer god forbid she will have to go to a lesser Uni.

Why are you dismissing options because she can't come home more than once a term?

Why should she want to come home? She will be studying and living independently - surely she would like to make the most of that?

My DD didn't go so far - 3 hours - but she only came home for term time holidays. Rest of the time she stayed in that city as she had so much going on!

In fact DD Bath offer was equal to what her Cambridge offer would be, she was pooled for Cambridge but no offer it is a harsh process and many many kids are more than capable of getting in.

Also - there are multiple reasons why a student might not want to be hundreds of miles away for uni, this isn't necessarily the OP being overtly clingy.

What's so different about the London university experience that makes it bad? My DD went to LSE and found a lovely group of friends in halls. She went out and socialised a lot. She lived year2/3 at home but still felt a lovely community feel at the University.

That doesn’t suit everyone @GoodMorningPineapple A lot of young people want to live away from home for 3 years and have their friends in close proximity. The YP I know who went to London universities (these are people who don’t have family in London) felt quite isolated.