to wonder if narcissism is really that common?

[Kibble29]

It seems like it’s become a generic answer for anyone who’s selfish, thoughtless or inconsiderate.

The estimation is that around 5% of people are narcs, but that the undiagnosed cases may mean it’s higher.

On mumsnet at least, so many people claim to have a partner whose ex wife is a narc, people say their mum is one, their boyfriend is one…

What do you think? A common condition or an overused buzzword?

I suspect narcissistic traits are more common, but not enough traits for a diagnosis.

Narcissistic as an adjective doesn’t necessarily mean the clinical diagnosis of narcissistic PD but my opinion is that the word has been hijacked to be linked primarily with that meaning. So whenever it is used some people will assume it means PD.

So 1 in 20? That’s not rare then. That’s three in every two school classes. If I have my parents, DHs parents, his siblings my siblings, the partners- there’s a good chance one is a narc.

It’s DM, if you’re wondering 🤣

Not all that common but once you meet one you know. I worked for one, and also employed one for a while. That was a nightmare.

It’s common in the same way as anyone on the centre right of politics is now far right, how everyone is underprivileged in some way, and in the same way as there is not a single person on the planet who could just be bad. It’s always mental health issues. Always.

having narcissistic traits is not the same as being a narcissist, which is also not the same as having full blown narcissistic personality disorder. It’s a sliding scale.

Most people have narcissistic traits.

There will also be plenty of narcissists around.

NPD on the other hand is very very rare - but then again people with NPD aren’t likely to put themselves forward for diagnosis as it’s everyone else that the problem!

So what does it take to be a full blown narcissist?

Massively overused on Mumsnet

Especially when they're asked to explain and they just come out with a few things they don't like about the person.

I think a lot of people confuse 'selfish' with 'narcissist'.

I always thought being a narcissist was someone who obviously loved themselves more than anyone else. The whole story of Narcisus falling in love with his own reflection. I now know it much more than that. Everything I’ve read and watched fully describes my mother and my childhood as a scapegoat child so I would say my mother is a narcissist. I couldn’t imagine my mother would ever consider she has any issues with her personality to get diagnosed, nor any other narsasists. I think there would have to be extenuating circumstances for someone to believe they needed to get their personalities checked.

No it isn’t! Everyone’s ex has to be a ‘narcissist’ all of a sudden! Always diagnosed using one of these ‘how to spot a narcissist’ articles on social media, it’s the in word. What happened to people’s exes just being plain old garden variety twats or arseholes?

I think the word gets used a lot. Many people have some narcissistic traits but once you’ve met a true narcissist you know. They’re not likely to be diagnosed though because they genuinely think everyone else is the problem!!

It’s definitely thrown around incorrectly. I find it’s similar to people saying they’re ‘depressed’ or have ‘anxiety’ when really they’re sad or worried. It’s deeply unhelpful and a bit offensive to people actually struggling with these things. Someone with NPD isn’t just selfish and people living with someone who has NPD are almost certainly living in a toxic and/or abusive environment.

I think narcissistic traits are common, but I think they're fairly easy to spot
Centering of 'I'
Tantrums when things don’t go their way
Easily unsettled emotionally/fragile sense of self
Struggling to be alone or needing constant reassurance from a ‘mummy’ figure
Difficulty trusting partners and maintaining a stable, loving connection

Imagine the emotional maturity of a 2-4-year-old, but in an adult body.

Good luck

One of the reasons why personality disorders are so hard to diagnose because the symptoms are, on their own, all traits that can be found in a normal, non-disordered, personality. What differentiates them is the degree to which they’re expressed, and the interplay between certain traits. There’s also a lot of overlap between symptoms of a personality disorder, and symptoms of, say, anxiety and/or depression. It isn’t particularly clearly defined.

Everyone is capable of being an arsehole. Sometimes, someone being an arsehole is just being an arsehole (and maybe from their perspective, you’re being the arsehole). No need to shove a proverbial feather boa on it and call it Narcissism™

Narcissism is part of a HEALTHY personality. Someone with too little self-regard is just as problematic as someone with too much.

Strongly narcissistic people are a pain in the arse, to be sure (I married one) and definitely can't be trusted to be considerate or helpful. Personality disorders are so extreme that people who have them are what we used to call 'mad'. I've known a few of these, as well as loads of very narcissistic people - they aren't the same thing at all. People with NPD are bewilderingly dishonest, weird and even dangerous.

It is annoying when people go on about 'narcissists' but I generally ignore the label and listen to the behaviours.

I think it's become hugely overused. I'd never met anyone I thought could be a narcissist until my last boyfriend. I've never met someone utterly devoid of empathy for anyone and anything, whilst also being totally convinced they were superior to everyone else in every way. It was an unshakeable belief for him and the traits were so extreme that it made me believe he was a narcissist.

I'm a strong character but after 9 months he had me doubting myself as everything I (and others) did was wrong and constantly picked apart. They are truly damaging people to be around.

Five percent is one in 20. So if you know 100 people, you probably know five narcissists and they are probably the people you’re going to come to Mumsnet to have a moan about.

What happened to people’s exes just being plain old garden variety twats or arseholes?

TBH I think that’s just what we called people before the internet and media made information on psychological conditions far more accessible to the average person. The arrogant twats and mongrels of yesteryear were narcissists and people with antisocial personality disorder by a different label.

Narcissists behave in predictable well defined patterns. Once you’ve lived with one it’s very easy to spot it in others. It’s not just that they are arseholes, it’s that their entire personality is a fabrication designed to drain energy and attention from people. Many are just deluded and grandiose but some are sadistic and destructive. I’m glad there is more awareness about it now, it would have saved me a couple of years of my life if I knew back then what I know now.

There are some great descriptions of the personality type here. Not just arseholes, but fundamentally built differently. Understanding it made life so much easier.

Mine probably flies under the radar for people who don’t have prolonged contact. Close relationships though… painful.

I always say my mum has traits but unsure if she would get a diagnosis

Agree with others that there are lots of people with narcissistic traits who may not meet the full diagnostic criteria for NPD. I think it's reasonable though to highlight those traits as narcissistic.

I doubt it's 5% of the population who have actual NPD. I'm not even sure it's 5% with notable narcissistic traits. But even if it's a lot less percentage wise, what I think people don't realise is how many people that still is. Say 1% of the population have strong narcissistic traits... that's 1 out of every 100 people. Sounds like very few but we all meet thousands of people over our lifetimes. 1% of the population is 680000 people.

I have known 2 people qith what I would consider strong narcissistic traits. Probably more where that wasn't tied on me. It's not a lot, but it's more than enough to have affected me.

@Kibble29
It's 0.5%-5%

It's impossible to know but the reality is that it will likely be somewhere between the two numbers.

The worldwide pooled prevalence of ANY personality disorder was 7.8% .Rates were greater in high-income countries 9.6% compared with LMICs 4.3%

So the likelihood of the high number of people on MN having family members with NPD is highly exaggerated

mentalhealth-uk.org/help-and-information/conditions/personality-disorders/types-of-personality-disorders/

I do think that NPD is going to be under diagnosed due to the person with the condition not seeing themselves as being at the heart of their problems.

And of course you are right- people are misusing the term for someone showing narcissistic behaviours on occasion or in a particular situation/relationship.

My narc actually is though, obviously 🤣
Bless her.

I was coming on to say pretty much this.
I take issue with people ‘diagnosing’ other people with personality disorders when they nearly always lack the clinical expertise to do so.