To think all of these people can afford children they just don't want them

[Surgicalprecison]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g7x5kl5l8o

These articles on the BBC lately show me people's priorities in life have shifted, they don't want children enough to compromise on their current lifestyles.

I've seen quite a few articles on mainstream news websites about this subject. They are really going for it. Things have changed and people don't want kids for a number of reasons

It would be difficult, they are both dead. I cared for my mum for the last 6 years of her life when she was bed bound and totally reliant on me visiting several times a day in addition to nurses dropping by.
I've done the care sector through out my working life and it's low paid, hard work.
Most people wouldn't /couldn't do it.

I'm not going to have kids just to provide more working cogs for the capitalist machine, or in the hopes they will take care of me when I'm old. This world is miserable and it's selfish to bring more people into it.

I do sometimes worry about a Handmaid's Tail scenario - encourage women to have children, restrict women so they have little other to do than have children, force women to have children .

There's no good answer really. It can be a total crap shoot.
I know people who wanted kids (or more kids) and would have been great parents but can't have them.
I know people who didn't want kids but somehow have them (accident?) and do or don't enjoy it. Some are glad. Some are sad. (Thank you, Dr Seuss)
I know people who wanted kids but now they have 'em would gladly send them back (and the baby-parent/spouse too!).
In a small minority are people who have kids and are glad and (still) love their OHs too.
On the whole, DH and I wanted ours and they have turned out very well in spite of us. But there were tough times too.

It's not about you caring for your parents, it's about carers being available when you're old enough to need them - whether privately or through the NHS/social services. If the elderly population is too large compared to the working population, how can the care be provided?

You're assuming that they would want to care for you elderly and don't have their collective eyes trained on brighter and bigger things....

We’ll have Tesla robot at caring for the elderly so I wouldn’t worry about that side of things.

Kids are a huge responsibility and a massive worry for life. I can see why people aren’t keen on taking that on.

I agree on the one with the vasectomy. If you really wanted one you would have made it work or tried to live somewhere cheaper instead of making yourself on infertile.

i was not obsessed with having kids, but was absolutely gutted when abnormalities in my womb meant I could not. Was it because I could not make that decision? Or expected to change my view - I do not know

I won't need the care, as soon as my life becomes remotely difficult health wise, I am ending it. I'm happy with that and the family accept it.
Not everyone would do that though and it will be difficult for them if care isn't avaiiable. But as I said previously a lot of people won't do caring work. The care system is very short staffed now so where are all these extra carers coming from if people don't work in this sector now?

The final two women are more concerned about finding partners than about money, the first couple want to own a house before they have a kid - which is understandable - the second couple just don’t want kids.

So no

But more broadly if want people to have more children, before their fertility declines or they get used to a child free lifestyle, then things like housing and childcare need to be cheaper.

If we paid carers what they deserve, it would instantly be an attractive career, but we never do for the caring (female) professions and jobs.

Regardless, if there's no people to fill the jobs, no hiring strategy will work.

Ftr, I don't think anyone should have children just to benefit society, I just don't think society should be putting financial obstacles in people's paths if they would like to be parents.

Btw - care doesn't just apply at the end of life. You could need a hip replacement and go on to a full recovery but still need a bit of help in the early days. It's not just about dementia or end of life care.

Well no actually. No one believed me when I was early 20s and said I didn’t want children. I am now, happily married for decades and (baring an entirely unwanted miracle!) past the age of having any and people STILL say…..”well. There is time”. There isn’t. Because, for me, having children wasn’t about what I “wanted” or could afford. I knew I’d be a shit parent at 20 and at pushing 50 my opinion hasn’t changed.

Being a parent isn’t for everyone and frankly? The world would be a better place if more people considered their actual suitability to be a parent before having children.

I totally disagree with this re; people will have children no matter how poor they are.

I think that’s a major change in the last few years and the hyper-acceleration of the decreasing birth rate.

Middle earners who expect to work often cannot afford kids and a home comfortably. Some might be able to afford one child - two is getting very difficult.

And so people who previously would have decided having children seemed like the logical next step, are now just going ‘not worth it’.

The biggest decline in the birth rate is these middle income families.

Housing is a large factor of people can't afford to have children especially as the rental market is not particularly stable for bringing your children up . You can be given a section 21 at any point pretty much. No one really wants to move their kids around a lot and move schools constantly, but that's the conditions that the rental market kind of makes people do. Buying a place is incredibly expensive, especially a family home in London and the Southeast and Southwest.

The article doesn't really look at the cost of housing

Well yes there are families surviving on less than 20k a year so of course those people could afford kids.

Dh and I have a joint income of 70k , have 3 kids and savings.

But they don't want to downgrade their lifestyle or move to a cheaper area. They want the life they have plus 2k a month spare for childcare etc. They don't have the surplus money so choose not to try for children. Which is absolutely their right.

Maybe that's the case in some cases but I'm not sure why people are determined to ignore the fact that the economic landscape in the UK means it is extremely difficult to manage.

Just looking at housing alone; I got pregnant young in 2015 and even then couldn't afford to rent, nor was I competitive as prospective tenant to professionals who could afford to rent a family sized property for themselves. It took about 18 months all in but eventually I got a home. It's not council but also not private so I have secure tenure.

These days, it's becoming increasingly difficult to get any sort of stable housing at an affordable cost, and of course when you are considering having a child, that's a huge factor.

It is extremely obvious that plenty of adults who would happily slipped into parenthood as a natural result of having a happy relationship and a settled home, are no longer living in situations where that can happen.

It's really not rocket science and while it's great that people are being discerning and choosing not to have kids, it is definitely not the only nor likely the most common reason people are not having kids.

I agree OP and posted similar recently, it went down like a plate of cold sick on here

And in terms of moving, that's a nice idea but to have a family you need employment.

There aren't enough jobs for everyone to move to cheaper parts of the country, that's why we have the SE bottleneck. Because jobs are concentrated here.

This is silly.

‘if they really wanted children they’d abandon their lives, friends, careers and families - to move to a cheap part of the country and live in rental accommodation on less than minimum wage topped up by UC’.

And - great you can raise 3 kids on £70k joint income, but there’s parts of the country that’s just not realistic now. When you were able to buy a house and access to childcare are major factors.

We are getting wheeled out from job to crematorium by the time millenials will get to old age.

Everybody sacrifices something when they have kids. Nobody (maybe those on benefits) is going to have more money from having kids as they cost money .......

I don't believe that money is the only reason for most of those couples. If they wanted it enough they'd make it work- move somewhere cheaper, try and develop their career, cut back on lifestyle etc.

As long as nobody then moans about immigration, then its all good.