To think all of these people can afford children they just don't want them

[Surgicalprecison]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g7x5kl5l8o

These articles on the BBC lately show me people's priorities in life have shifted, they don't want children enough to compromise on their current lifestyles.

I dunno. Seems like a good wage until you have to pay London property prices and London nursery. We only have one kid because it's all we could afford and we are nowhere near London.

It was hard and when we earned more and she was in school we talked about another but it meant everything was tight and would be for a long time. The house also wasn't big enough so add another ten years on the mortgage to cover the additional. It is about priorities but it also really hard for young people (I don't fall into this category so I'm not making excuses) now to set up a solid base even with a large inheritance or ability to live with parents while they save.

I thought that was a bit of an odd comment too. Past the childcare stage.
But I thought the first two would be able to. Incomes of 72k was it in London? And 60k up north.

Ha, what? Raising kids is more than what you have in your bank account, and the roof over your head. You have to have that desire to begin with.
For me, I could be loaded and I would still not want them. If I had them, they would be removed from me, because I can barely look after myself...

The comedian Sarah Millican got it right - she said she can't have kids because she hates them.

Climate change is likely to mean that some of the most populous parts of the globe become uninhabitable. Where do you suppose the billions of people who live there now will go? If we who have more choice continue to have children at over 2 per woman, we as a species really will run out of room and water, and then there’ll be wars. Surely it’s better if those who don’t want to have children don’t have them, and then those who cannot stay in their country of origin can fill those gaps?

@MidnightPatrol it's not silly at all as I said it's a valid choice. A lot of people want to have children but only if they can provide a certain standard of living for them. Completely reasonable.

And in answer to your question we bought our house 11 years ago. We saved for 3 years previously to raise 15 k for a 10% deposit plus costs. We paid 138k mortgaged 4 bed detached house in the north of England (fairly deprived area) . When eldest was born I worked part time and grandparents helped. Whilst on maternity leave with second I retrained as a childminder so I could work and care for my own children. I gave it up after 3rd was born due to ds health issues. I became a sahp for 5 years, I now work part time.

I didn't read the article fully yesterday, but the couple from Wakefield caught my eye. I was very surprised that they they were so definite (taking into consideration their salaries and location) that having children would be unaffordable for them. Of course if people want to be child free that's completely their decision and I wouldn't judge anyone for it.

Thanks for doing your bit!
I look forward to having my arse wiped my your kids 😁

Absolutely nobody has kids to 'keep society going'. The most stupid, transparent lie going. Just say you wanted kids, you look a total fool peddling this crap.

isnt less people on the planet is the answer to the alleged climate crisis?

Yeah £138k for a four-bed detached house isn’t realistic in most of the UK.

And because of those higher housing costs, you need two incomes. Which means childcare costs.

Great you have made this work for you, but not realistic for most (and particularly if you live in the South of the country) - and not everyone has grandparents able to provide free childcare.

Not to me. It's a transient workforce. A care industry, based on migrants isn't ideal for a number of reasons.

Also, the birth rate across the world is declining, are you so sure people will come? And stay?

It leaves us in a very dependent, precarious position. Thankfully I have three children who will hopefully advocate for my needs, but it is worrying none the less.

We could have afforded children, however, we both had horrible childhoods with parents who hated each other and both of us bought up in relative poverty for the era. We both coincidently had younger siblings that we were totally responsible for from the age of 6 in my case until at least 16, ie we had had at least 10 years of parenting by the time we left school, longer in my other halfs case. The thoughts behind this are subconsciously held and my case in particular couldn't understand the desire to bring someone into the world who would be intensely unhappy for most if not all of their life as well as keep us unhappy too (as our parents made ourselves to believe we were responsible for). I never worked this out in verbal terms until I was maybe 45 years old or so, before that it was pure instinct. We do like the children we have known though and see them as living in a world we were totally alien to and in fact could not have believed possible in our early lives, all thanks to our miserable upbringings.

The south east of the UK is already heading towards unbearable summers, you may well see a lot of London-centric jobs heading north.

Most of us probably don't want to raise our children in deprived areas. Nothing to do with snobbery, but the risks to the child in growing up in those areas and the potential impact on their long term outcomes.

I would rather have fewer children than feel forced to live in a deprived area.

Yes, quoting altruism in order to put themselves on the moral high ground. A bit like landlords telling us they are landlords purely to help the needy etc.

I didn't not have children because of finances. I didn't have children because I didn't want children. The finances are a happy side effect.

I don’t think the PP means that, she means people to pay taxes

As we get older we work less and cost more - long before life becomes so unpleasant we’d want to top ourselves

I was in Wakefield recently and yes it might not be Knightsbridge properly prices but it was not cheap to buy a house there in my opinion at all. So that couple on 60k could easily have a 300k mortgage on something nice but not jaw dropping.

Also my dc cost me the most out of everything I spend - fees, clubs, clothes, outings, a house big enough for us all, healthy food for 4 etc etc et fucking cetra. I am not surprised people on average incomes or higher are thinking twice - it’s expensive and it’s hard work so if you’re not 100% in, maybe it’s a good thing to leave it.

We could have afforded children and given them a financially good life in a nice detached house etc ….. but look at the shit that is going on, the global population is through the roof, climate change is happening and we aren’t doing anything really to stop it but banning plastic straws. Why would I want to bring a child into this world?

What is life on this planet really going to be like when your children are retiring or your great grandchildren are being born?

That's really sad that there are nasty judgmental people like that. They must have lives that are seriously lacking (regardless of whether or not they have children) if they can't concentrate on their own choices and respect that other people are not them.

It is not selfish to have children and it is not selfish to not have children. The only truly selfish decision is not to want to look after and prioritise children yet still to decide to have then anyway.

While I agree that if people want them they will have them, many people will not have children unless they can guarantee the child things like - secure housing, food, clothes, heating healthcare etc. From their experiences these things are very hard to attain and are extremely unstable even if you do manage (house prices, mortgage fluctuations, etc.) so I totally understand people who want kids but choose not to have them as their stability feels so uncertain.

Oh, I'm not criticising Wakefield at all, nor saying that you can get houses there for buttons.

Housing is still expensive anywhere in the country, but as somebody who lives in an average house in a relatively affordable town in the Midlands, it never ceases to amaze me how ludicrously expensive housing is in almost anywhere in London and the South-East in comparison.

London is currently the only place in the UK where there is actually a return on getting a degree aka graduate premium. North south divide has lasted 100 years and london is still much cooler than dubai or singapore which many brits do move to.

https://ifs.org.uk/news/increasing-concentration-high-skilled-jobs-london-means-graduates-elsewhere-cannot-fully

There was actually a higher concentration of graduate jobs in london post pandemic which is why rent for a room is now 1k in London .

It really depends what other costs you have. It wouldn't be unreasonable to be 12k -20k rent, 12k bills and food, 8k travel
If you had a child that would be another 15k nursery.
This is before having yo buy baby food. Nappies, clothes, classes etc...
So yes I believe many can't realistically afford it.

Yeah so??